Obliteration of the ego

by logansrun 59 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Terry

  Since nobody wishes to explain to me what they are saying I'll try to piece it together for myself.

  Words, in order to communicate, must contain actual meaning.

  When we speak about the EGO here what are we defining? I posted the definition earlier and it does not fit anything any of you are saying.

  Definition: EGO: According to the psychoanalytic perspective on human development, the ego is the part of the personality that is rational and reasonable. Providing a reality check for the demands of the id, the ego acts as a buffer between the outside world and the primitive id. The ego operates on the "reality principle", in which instincts are restrained in order to maintain the safety of the individual and help integrate the individual into society. (Source: Google)

  I suspect you are using a different definition which is probably simply the condition I call HUBRIS.

  DEFINITION of HUBRIS:

  Need to defy the whole and be detached in a never completed search for satisfaction; cause of discontent; lack of rythm; confidence in the mind in place of the self; kind of suffering associated with ignorance; superior and careless behavior; defiance. Hubris perpetuates Personality. Hubris requires Ignorance. (Source: Google)

  *********************************************************************************************************

  For you as a person to exist passively is to empty out your power to accomplish anything for yourself or for your future much less those who you may value as companions and loved ones.

  In the Middle Ages (Dark Ages) men acted according to your ideals by entering monastery conclaves and sealing themselves off from sensation. The theory was they would only contemplate goodness and positive thought.

  This dropping-out is moral cowardice.

  The Hippcratic Oath begins with "First of all, do no harm." Okay. But, to be a physician you actually have to DO SOMETHING positive or you aren't a doctor.

  So too with your life.

  You have to do something positive and productive with your life to be fully human. Simply dumping out your feelings (like scraping the inside of a cantelope) won't do much but make a stinky pile in the sink.

  Life is about struggle and overcoming not only your self; but, actually winning. What is winning in life? It is creating a legacy. It is constructing an entire (start to finish) lifetime of accomplishment in something tangible.

  Gurus don't do anything but flap their lips. It is workers, artisans, artists, designers, creators who build a world for good or ill with the sweat of their brow and the rough chafing of their hands.

  I'll take ten such doers to every lotus-position sitter with an empty grin and an "Ommmm" in their throat.

  As the bumper sticker says: LEAD, FOLLOW OR GET THE HELL OUT OF THE WAY.

  That is life on Planet Earth.

  Terry
• 

  JamesThomas

  Terry,
  
  Thank you for the definition of HUBRIS. It has not been part of my vocabulary. The examples you quoted after the asterisks were helpful as well;)
  
  It seems your concerns are that the ego keeps us active and connected to life, whereas letting go of the ego separates us from life and places us in some drooling, meditative stupor. Actually, the reality is quite the reverse.
  
  The ego is simply an intellectually generated facsimile of self and existence. A virtual reality. It can be a tool used briefly in practical day to day relationships with people, but it is not the actual reality of what we are. The problem is that often it becomes our God, the alfa and omega, the beginning and end of our definition of self. If something can not fit into the confines of thought, of ego, if life presents something that does not support and reinforce the tiny entity we believe ourselves to be, then no credence is given. Life is lived as if looking out a tiny peep-hole of this pod we call "me". Life is something that happen outside of us. We are never really present or connected to anything.
  
  However, the very same consciousness which reads this now, need not continue to dwell within the walls of ego. When conscious-awareness is present with life, in this moment, as it is, without the mental interpretation, judgment and commentary of the mind, where are the mental walls of egoic separation then? There is no-longer a tiny fragmented identity around which everything else moves. There is Life, raw and naked, everywhere, and there is no specific center of identity to make for a sense of separation. Here, attention is openly and clearly given to the present moment task at hand. Here, is where new and authentic artistic expression and innovation is born. Here, is where true meeting and communion with folks naturally occurs. Here, the hurt of others is not there's, but mine. Here, there is a joyous Oneness, which makes not for a blissed-out numbness, but rather opens consciousness to the raw aliveness of what is Life, empathy, compassion, understanding and love.
  
  This is not about some spiritual or mystic b.s., but rather about discovery of our natural being.
  
  
  j
• 

  trevor

  JamesThomas

  I posted here to save you appearing to be a thread killer and to bring your comments to the top for a moment.

  I appreciate the comments you make as do many others. I find they have the effect of reminding me that I am straying back to the ego oriented outlook and I stop and find time to meditate.

  The fact that you do not get the huge number of replies that others do is due to the fact that you exist on a higher level of development and appeal to a smaller group of people. Perhaps if you were to post a thread explaining your toilet habits you would be noticed more. I say this in tongue in cheek, as I realize you have moved beyond the need to be noticed to a place called maturity.

  Terry I hope you read this. I would be interested in knowing if the comments in this thread have made more sense to you in regard to the ego.
• 

  Terry

  However, the very same consciousness which reads this now, need not continue to dwell within the walls of ego. When conscious-awareness is present with life, in this moment, as it is, without the mental interpretation, judgment and commentary of the mind, where are the mental walls of egoic separation then? There is no-longer a tiny fragmented identity around which everything else moves. There is Life, raw and naked, everywhere, and there is no specific center of identity to make for a sense of separation. Here, attention is openly and clearly given to the present moment task at hand. Here, is where new and authentic artistic expression and innovation is born. Here, is where true meeting and communion with folks naturally occurs. Here, the hurt of others is not there's, but mine. Here, there is a joyous Oneness, which makes not for a blissed-out numbness, but rather opens consciousness to the raw aliveness of what is Life, empathy, compassion, understanding and love.

  First off, much sincere thanks for taking the trouble to write a carefully considered explanation for me. This is much clearer. It is thoughtful and I see where you are coming from and sense your goal may be more like "ridding" our life of encumbrances.

  Let me (not ungratefully) pick at these morsels the way a spoiled child might poke his fork at a gracious plate of victuals.

  I want to focus in one your phrase:

  When conscious-awareness is present with life, in this moment, as it is, without the mental interpretation, judgment and commentary of the mind, where are the mental walls of egoic separation then?

  Hmmmm.

  Children drink in life wide-eyed and hungrily. The universe pours in like cold mountain water into a canteen. Adults boil the water or pop in some tablets to kill the kryptosporidium. What I think you may be saying here (correct me if I'm wrong) is that we need the ATTITUDE of the wide-eyed child. But, what I'm not sure you're also saying is "Don't bother boiling the water or popping the tablets." This worries me. I'm not sure we are going to be celebrating the micro organism infestations in our bowels.

  In other words, don't we risk something equal to what we gain by dumping our vigilance? Is that oneness with nature not an invitation to view the universe as BENIGN? Aren't we mere tender chunks o' meaty goodness for predators when we smile at god and let the sunshine in?

  I'm asking honestly. I'm not pushing an agenda. Nature may be fuzzy bunnies and daffodils to the "enlightened" but, it is also scorpians, fleas, ticks and black widows too. Parasites would love to be at one with us.

  This is my quandry.

  Can you allay these reservations a bit?

  Thanks.
• 

  LittleToe

  Terry:
  Your wit and choice of adjectives and analogies have me grinning like a moron!
  

  James:I think this has been your best attempt, thusfar, to present your perspective in words.
  Kudos to ya
• 

  Narkissos

  Back to one of my favourite topics (cf. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/63761/1.ashx): our deep and insisting, although ever denied, repressed or disguised, love of death.

  "What do you want, Sibyl? -- I want to die (apothanein thelô)."
• 

  LittleToe

  Didier:I was recently captivated by Sparkplug's bio, in which there was a comment about using up the body till there's nothing left. Having an octogenarian friend in hospital at the moment , yet full of life, I like the concept.

  So much dark humour
• 

  JamesThomas

  Trevor,
  Thank you for your kind comments. However, if you perceive something that reminds you to be more present, and you are, and you find such meeting with life more satisfying and significant, then it is your movement outside the box that deserves the appreciation. Your kindness and diligence helps me as well.....and if you met me you would think twice about that "maturity" statement.
  
  
  Ross,
  Mathematically speaking, it would seem unlikely that I could make a blundering mess out of it all the time. Thanks though.
  
  
  
  
  Thank you for your reply. You have a wonderful way of expressing, which I appreciate and often enjoy.
  
  You ask "don't we risk something equal to what we gain by dumping our vigilance?"
  
  From my experience it has been seen that the ego, the mentally fabricated self, is like a thick body cast which actually numbs consciousness to life as if everything is viewed through a dense fog. Now, when consciousness steps outside the fortifications of ego, seeing, being, becomes clear; and now for the first time there is TRUE VIGILANCE. Real, wakeful alertness and presence with Life. We see what requires doing more clearly and there is far less wasted movement. And, I might add, that dropping the cloud of the ego does not mean you might not kick the shit out of someone who attacks you or your family. Natural instincts remain in play. So, really, we have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
  
  It is true that we become more vulnerable and exposed. We become familiar with far greater depths of both joy and sorrow. Such is the Reality and infinite expression of life.
  
  There is more. When the ego-self is clearly seen to not be our true identity, there is an indescribable freeing. A freeing of the intellect and talents to create. A freeing of the body to feel. But by far the most significant is the freeing of the beliefs we are a fragile and fragmented entity, cut off and separated from wholeness. Here, all words fail.
  
  
  j
• 

  Doubtfully Yours

  Gibberish!

  Have you been drinking excessively again?

  DY
• 

  LittleToe

  DY:WTF was that in aid of?

  If ya don't have anything to say, why waste a post?