Is Jesus God? (page 5)

rocketman

I guess AlanF is god cuz he's the only one who answered my question and made logical sense. Now I pray to AlanF.

Gumby, that's the most hilarious thing I've ever read in a looong time!

gumby

Gumby,
Do you actually have an intelligent opinion on this........ or are we to take your clearly emotionally influenced comments to mean that you are just angry with anything JW or Christian and you want the world (here on JWD anyway) to know it!

I'll pick the second choice in bold type.

Xbehere, aren't you glad somebody pointed out to you you were being lied to when you were a witness? It's no different now. You believers are very similar to the dubs. When someone points out the bibles lunacy and fallacies......you take it as an attack on you personally. Frankly......it gripes me arse that ex-witnesses are devoted to the bible as gods word to the point of feeling it's blasphamious to research it's authenticity.

LT......there more evidence that Muhammed existed than there is of jesus. At least Muhammed had secular people testify he existed.....and not just his followers writings. The fact that either of these men "existed"....means little.

*sticks tongue out at LT and pokes him in the nutsack with a little stick*

JIM,

I don't see in the scripture where jesus encouraged prayer to him. He said anything you ask "the father" ...in my name.....I will do. He even gave an example of prayer.....to "the father". Many did "obeisence" to jesus.....the same as that word was used with reference to high ranking men who were shown reverence by others. Stephen was given a vision and reacted to the vision.

I agree there are scriptures that give a person reason to feel jesus is the same as god. I believe this because I feel the writers wanted to deify jesus and they did it to a point that countered other scripture.

I've never felt you could ask a person who has never read the bible before to come to the conclusion ......Jesus is god if they DID read it. People are TAUGHT the trinity.

Gumby

Kenneson

Grumble,

Why do you have such an unease over an historical Jesus? Do you also deny the existence of historical Christians because they did not attract much attention among first-century and second century writers? Surely you do not deny the existence of first-century Christians, do you?

As to your claim that there is no early secular evidence of a historical Jesus, it is unsupported. Josephus, Pliny the Younger, Cornelius Tacitus, Suetonius, Lucian of Samosta all refer to a man called Christ and his followers called Christians. Your so-called absence of evidence doesn't necessarily mean evidence of absence.

"The fact that either of these men "existed"...means little."

Not much. Just enough for you bring it into question.

LittleToe

Gumby:Your little "stick" doesn't impress me!
~pulls out big "stick"~

"Ah, I see your schwartz is as big as mine!" (Space Balls)
~goes flacid~

gumby

LT.....I already told ya......size just don't matter dammit!

Kennesson,

As to your claim that there is no early secular evidence of a historical Jesus, it is unsupported. Josephus, Pliny the Younger, Cornelius Tacitus, Suetonius, Lucian of Samosta all refer to a man called Christ and his followers called Christians

We've been over this rather weak argument of yours before and I ain't doin it again! Weak I tell ya!

How are ya btw

Gumby

Chance

I thought a FEW of you had some interesting points . I especially liked mnb77's explination and scriptures. Thank you. If I were George Bush, and the Watchtower was Iraq, I think mnb77's Isaiah:9:6 would have been my "smoking gun". :)

Kenneson

Gumby,

I don't even remember those weak arguments. But, than, your response must not have impressed me either.

I'm doing great, by the way. Thanks. Wishing you also the best.

Almost There

I have not posted nor visited this site in quite awhile (I'm glad to be back). This topic struck my interest, because this is one subject that have stumpted me and continue a little. All I want to say is that I don't know if Jesus and God are the same persons. But I know that Jesus is a God (from my experience). Since I've accepted him as my Lord and Saviour, and now live everyday of my life worshipping him, I've experienced the greatest peace and contentment, plus I have found my purpose. Coming from being raised a JW to feeling guilty from leaving the Organization thus baptizing when I didn't really feel the JW ... to being a agnostic and finally loving life...to becoming a Jesus loving Christian. So my answer is that Jesus is "GOD" to me. p.s. And this is to anyone who is thinking about leaving the JW Org. or recently left. It may seemed hard at the time, but as they say, "Time heals all wounds". I've been freed for 5 years and can't even remember most of the Jehovah Witness teachings.

greendawn

Almost there, I'm glad you found the WAY even though raised in the basically anti christ JW religion. I also had an experience similar to yours and realised how disastrously wrong their concept of the Father/Son relationship was with Christ very marginalised and jehovah over emphasized it was almost like going back to the judaic religion, when did a JW ever say things like we are Christ's people, may Christ bless you, do you know Christ etc

Yet the Father gave everything into the hand of the SON. WHy do they pretend they can't understand the meaning of this?

Almost There

Greendawn, They don't see the importance of Christ, because they're brainwashed or under some kind of spell. And basically they don't even worship Jehovah, they worship the organization and the elders, ms, overseers, pioneers, etc. From my experience it seem every meetings I would miss and to stop associating with the JW (except my parents), that my mind, body and soul was being released from the clutches of some spell. I could not think rationally (without JW thoughts) for about a year. My father gave the special talk a couple of weeks ago. My brother and sisters were having Easter dinner and had a bet as to when the special talk is held (on Saturday, week before memorial, etc.) So as a joke, I called my mom and told her that my sister wanted to know because she wanted to take her family (my sister is baptized, but has faded away and is now running for city council, plus an agnostic)....So then my sister calls my parents a day before the talk and tells them that all of us (one disfellowshippe sister, a christian (myself still baptized), a dread locked still baptized brother) will be attending to support dad. Back to the point of this thread.... The special talk was on Jesus and how the world see him...well my dad started flipping through the bible (I swear he read aleast 100 verses), picking scriptures to support their doctrines. My mind literally was mush. I left that talk so sad. I prayed for days for my parents and the JW to be freed from the brainwashing they're experiencing. So my father call us all and thank us for attending (he was very happy to see us there). He asked me what did I enjoy the talk. I told him yes, but I thought he used too many scriptures and tried to cover to many points in such a short time. That maybe he should teach from a passage of scripture, so the audience could really learn about Jesus. I thought he was going to start screaming about me being an apostate, but he didn't he agreed that he used too many scriptures, but was following the manuscript or outline (see I have forgotten JW terms).

Is Jesus God?

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