Discipline for Lying -- Opinions Please

by adelmaal 23 Replies latest jw friends

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  adelmaal

  Our daughter is 10 and she is in 4th grade. She has been having a tough time this year with schoolwork and she has started early puberty (boobs, acne, pubic hair, crushes on boys, etc.).

  Recently, we have been having problems with her lying to us and making up stories/excuses. She has been having trouble in school and we have been trying to help her out with her homework, studying for tests, etc. We are always letting her know she will not get into trouble for getting a bad grade so long as she puts in the effort (i.e. showing her work, studying, doing her homework, etc.). She is so afraid we will be disappointed in her when she gets a bad grade that she has taken to lying to cover things up.

  So. We caught her in a lie yesterday. I asked her if she got her rough draft for her mission report back from her teacher (the final is due Monday and we want to have time to help her with it this week). She said, "No." She then went on to tell an elaborate story about how the teacher had left the rough drafts in her husband's car and she would bring them the next day. She then changed her story and said one of the parents was helping the teacher to grade the rough drafts and they were actually left in the parent's husbands car. Needless to say, she went to great lengths to cover up the fact that she had indeed gotten her rough draft back.

  We went through her backpack as we occasionally do to see what's going on and found that she had gotten her rough draft back. Mind you this teacher loves to mark up with green pen and is very picky (IMHO). The markups were not bad. Mostly just grammer, etc. We explained to my daughter that rough drafts are supposed to be marked up and asked her why she lied to us. She burst into tears and went on about how she thought we would be disappointed and how she didn't want us to think she did a bad job. Drama!

  We then found a test she had taken where she had gotten a D-. Reason she got such a bad grade is because she had been absent the day they went over the study sheet and it was on her to obtain the answers for the study sheet from a friend so she would be able to prepare for the test. She did not obtain the answers and thus did not prepare for the test.

  Anyways, long story short she was going to have an overnight at our house with her friends this weekend and that has been cancelled; she also was sent to her room for the night with no tv, telephone, etc. Last time she told a lie to cover up the fact that she got detention and didn't go to detention she ended up losing out on her birthday party.

  I am looking for suggestions on a creative consequence for lying that will help her to understand why it is so bad to lie to cover things up. We gave her examples of how lying can make bad situations even worse. We have explained that eventually things come out and lying to avoid the consequences doesn't improve matters. We also explained that when we lie to cover something up for ourselves or a friend we can be doing more damage than good. We always tell her we love her and we know she is going to make mistakes. She needs to own up to those mistakes and there will be consequences but lying just makes matters worse.

  We are thinking about having her write a paper on lying this Sunday and spending time in her room working on this paper. Any suggestions?
• 

  RichieRich

  Ok - I'm just a kid myself. I used to lie about everything. (Now I just lie about JWD, my girlfriend, what I'm doing at night/ after school -- you know- the nonimportant stuff.) The reason why lying is bad is because it betrays the trust you and your mate have with your daughter. When I was about her age, I was caught telling a lie that I can't exactly remember the details of. After mom did her JW browbeating (Jehovah hates a false tongue and will kill you ) My father told me to give me the key I had to our house. He said if I couldn't be trusted to tell the truth about school work, I couldn't be trusted to be in the house by myself. After standing outside for a day (I was only there about an hour) I made the decision that I must never get caught lying. I don't know if this will help yall. But it semi-worked for me. Whatever you do... Don't spank your kids regularrly (its ok for really serious things). I am still quiver when I see my mother holding a belt ... god knows she used to beat the sh!t out of me. But anyways... I hope that helps...
• 

  Jez

  My first thought was that lying is the symptom of deeper issue. Why is she lying? She must KNOW that it is wrong, therefore any punishments, papers etc are just reinforcing something that she already knows. It won't solve the root of it, my guess is that she will just get even more creative at lying, or covering up the truth.

  I can't even venture to guess WHY she is lying, but that is where you must start. Not punish her for doing it, rather chill on the punishing part and LET her deal with the natural consequences of lying. She does not do the assignment at school, she trys again, she does not pass the test, she does a rewrite at lunch time, she lies about where she was after school, she gets picked up after school by mommy, she is not home from her little walk around the block at 1pm, she is not allowed to go out alone anymore...etc.

  I think that if she sees you getting very stressed about her lying, she will see it as proof that she was right in lying because you get upset. She may not make the connection that you are REALLY upset over just the lying, rather the thing that she lied about. I mean, I would be upset over BOTH and I could not convince my 10 year old of anything different. She knows me too well.

  Perhaps, and I humbly say this as I am really clueless and only you know your daughter's personality, but perhaps she is very afraid of failure, and is a perfectionist, has low self esteem for whatever reason. Some kids can't bear to get anything less than 100% and get easily stressed over it when it becomes impossible. She must be under alot of stress to lie and not want to disappoint you. Don't worry-often this has nothing to do with your parenting, it is just your child's personality. If this is her personality, she will never change, but she must be taught how to manage it.

  Talk to her teacher about your concerns if you feel comfortable.

  Is she involved in extra-curricular things that she can succeed at?

  I would move the focus off the lying and onto more positive things in her life, it will work its way out, sometimes a problem becomes a bigger problem just by focusing on it too much. Come in through the back door quietly and help her with whatever issues are behind the "WHY LIE?" question. Sometimes coming charging through the front door makes a kid bolt and run. I know, I have a 15 year old exactly like that!!!

  Cheers Jez
• 

  upside/down

  we have been having problems with her lying to us and making up stories/excuses

  So you're say my wife is 10yrs old?

  just kidding....

  u/d
• 

  Odrade

  Jez,

  Ademaal, IMO, you cannot punish away lying. You need to find out the reason why she thinks she HAS to lie. She may have already told you that when she said she was afraid to disappoint you. It might be wise to speak with a counselor (or have her talk to one) to devise other ways to deal with her fear of (insert reason here,) rather than lying.
• 

  adelmaal

  Thanks for all your suggestions you guys/gals. Being a parent/child can be so challenging at times.

  Don't spank your kids regularrly (its ok for really serious things).

  I hear ya on this one. We do not practice spanking in our house. You could count the times our children have been spanked on one hand. We only used it when they were young on big things like trying to get away and run into the street or parking lot, aggressively hurting another person, etc.

  Jez:

  You made some really good points. We tried to talk to her about her reasons for lying and it seems she mainly lies because she is afraid we will be disappointed if she gets a bad grade. Personally, I believe she lies also because she is expected to be perfect in the other household (at my ex's house). Her gramma over there will bust her for the littlest things and I'm sure she has learned to lie so she isn't getting busted all the time.

  We really try to reinforce the "you do not need to be perfect and you are going to make mistakes" attitude. We try to help her to understand that she just needs to be honest with us so we can help her. If she's having trouble with school work we will help her with it and we do.

  I really want to nip the lying in the bud while she's young so it doesn't turn into her lying to protect one of her friends who is suicidal or not calling us if she's been drinking under age and needs a ride home or ditching school and forging notes to cover up her absences, etc. I just want her to know that honesty and trust will help us all to be able to live together and grow up safe.

  Maybe I will work with her on writing a paper about honesty rather than lying and why it is important that we be able to trust each other and communicate. As for the school work we have been trying to address help her with that by helping her with her school work, having her carry all her books in her backpack, checking her homework journal daily, etc. She does have consequences come report card and progress report time when she gets poor grades or comments about missing assignments and talking too much in class.

  I don't think she's a perfectionist so much as she tries to take the easiest way out all the time. She will do the minimal effort required and half-ass everything just to plug her way through without really needing to try. Then when her lack of effort, cheating, avoiding, etc. catches up to her she lies to cover it up.
• 

  AlmostAtheist

  Some parents punish when a kid tells the truth about something. "Mom, I broke the window" "You're grounded for a month!"

  In that case, lying is encouraged because the consequences of lying are probably similar to the consequences of telling the truth.

  If you punish lightly or not at all when the truth is told, then there is no encouragement to lie. Of course, there's little encouragement to avoid trouble, too, since simply admitting it gets you off the hook. So there's got to be some reason and balance in there. I'm only highlighting the way children can become trained to lie, since the consequences are the same either way, with the possibility of simply getting away with it if you lie.

  Maybe you don't fit this at all, but I'll throw it out there.

  Dave
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  RichieRich

  If you punish lightly or not at all when the truth is told, then there is no encouragement to lie. Of course, there's little encouragement to avoid trouble, too, since simply admitting it gets you off the hook. So there's got to be some reason and balance in there. I'm only highlighting the way children can become trained to lie, since the consequences are the same either way, with the possibility of simply getting away with it if you lie.

  AMEN! Thats what my parents (mom especially) do. SO freaking typical...
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  jaffacake

  Find out what is behind the lies, is it something to do with how we react to the truth? With my kids I try to talk about truth as being so so important. They know I love truthfulness. But that should be put into practice. The praise for truth must be so much greater than the punishment for lies. That sometimes means not reacting too strongly about the bad behaviour confessed. It tends to work for me, but everyone lies sometimes.
• 

  misspeaches

  Hi there

  My very close friend found school work to be incredibly stressful. It was not due to the fact that she was having trouble understanding the topic but meeting deadlines and being an overachiever crushed her spirit. She ended up not being able to finish school and that as well as a couple of other things led her into depression.

  Since that time she has recieved counselling and is able to cope so much better with things. In fact she has now returned to school to get further education and find herself a great job.

  I guess what I am trying to say is that perhaps your daughter is feeling incredible pressure and when she had corrections all over her rough draft she felt inadequete in her abilities. Getting her to talk to someone and improve her confidence etc could be really beneficial. It's good to nip this in the bud so that she can finish high school and maybe one day even get to Uni.

  Miss Peaches