Lurkers scripture's that got my wife to go Mmmm!

qwerty

I showed these to my wife at the meeting last night. I was surprised at her reaction. Someone was using Rev 21:3 in the usual context, to show that God's presence will be WITH mankind after the big "A".

JW lurkers! and anyone else who would like to comment......

REV 21:3. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.
4. "And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying; and there shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.''
5. Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new.'' And He said to me, "Write, for these words are true and faithful.''
6. And He said to me, "It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts.

Who is this scripture talking about? Who is the Alpha and the Omega?
Who give out this water freely? Jehovah? Jesus? See bottom of the page
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.Well have a look at John 4:
10. Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, `Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water.''
11. The woman said to Him, "Sir, You have nothing to draw with, and the well is deep. Where then do You get that living water?
12. "Are You greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well, and drank from it himself, as well as his sons and his livestock?''
13. Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again,
14. "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.''

Scriptures that make you go Mmmmmmmmm!

qwerty

Rex B13

Most excellent, man!
Rex

ros

Hi, Qwerty:

Question: Do you know what "living water" was to the Jews in Jesus' day?

Seeker

The JW explanation for who is talking in Revelation is so convoluted as to be laughable. I once looked at a Bible marked by a Bethelite who copied down the notes given by a Bethel instructor about who is speaking in any given verse of Revelation. Rev. 21:5,6 was a riot of notes, claiming that it is Jehovah speaking, then Jesus, then back to Jehovah, then back to Jesus, then take a 5-minute break to catch your breath, then back to...

In fact, on the face of it, it appears to be an either/or proposition. Both Jehovah and Jesus are said to be sitting on a throne, depending on context. But the tie-in to John is a valid observation, thereby making it look as if Revelation 21:5,6 is talking about Jesus the whole way through. Chalk one up for the trinitarians.

qwerty

Seeker.....

I'd like to see that Bible.

Thanks forthe input

ros......

The Song of Solomon uses the word in a figure of speech describing one's wife; she is "a well of living waters" (4:15)LOL. The emphasis is not on the fact that the water flows but on its freshness; it is not stagnant, and therefore is refreshing and pleasant when consumed.

Represents that which is in a well, "water" to be drunk (Gen. 21:19). "Living water" is "water" that flows: "And Isaac's servants digged in the valley, and found there a well of springing [living] water..." (Gen. 26:19).

In the OT there is no ritual of a pouring out of water associated with the feast of tabernacles. But it was practiced in the first century A.D. It is this custom of pouring out water on the last day of the feast of tabernacles as a symbolic prayer for rain that forms the background for Jesus' invitation to come to him and be satisfied with the living water of the Spirit (John 7:37-39).

John 7:37. On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.
38. "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.''
39. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Holy Spirit

qwerty

uncle_onion

qwerty

Man, how you outlook on things have changed! we must talk as I am intrigued as to how you are feeling now.Sound card is knackered but it wil be sorted soon so how about a ses on paltalk SOON?

J

qwerty

Hi J

Been wondering how you are. I've not seen you post on here for ages, unless you have but on one of the other sections.

Let me know when youhave a S C replacment.

Bye for now.

Qwerty

MacHislopp

Hello Qwerty,

these few lines to tell you,
that I do appreciate your post. A very interesting
one about Revelation 21:5,6 and also the one about
"rivers of living water ". Thanks.

Thanks also to Seeker, about the Bethelite's notes.

Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

ros

Hi, Qwerty:

Excellent on "living water". That is the kind of study I love!

Regarding the scriptures in Revelation 21 of your first post here:
After my admission that I no longer believed the Watchtower, I thought I was probably the only exJW on the face of the earth who believed exJWs could be Christian. For about 10 years, I felt spiritually alone, praying to Jehovah to reveal to those who were kicked out or were like I had been for years--waiting on Jehovah--for things to get corrected.
After about 10 years, I was flicking through TV channels one night and happened upon the John Ankerberg Show which I had never seen before. He happened to be interviewing a panel of exJWs, I believe of the Cetner's group, and they were talking about how they had been Bethelites, and now were Christian. One of the ladies discussed these scriptures you mention in Revelation 21 about "the Alpha and Omega" being Christ.
This was the first I knew of exJWs who maintained that they could be exJW Christians. I was awed! This was also the first I heard of Ray Franz and of his book, Crisis of Conscience. I was excited, couldn't wait to order the book. I contacted Commentary Press directly.

But more on topic of this thread, you're right, the Rev. scriptures pointed out by the panelists did make me go "Mmmmmm?" It was the beginning of my investigation which I had not given much thought to before, and that was the deity of Christ in His Kingdom. I agree that there does not seem to be a viable explanation of these texts if one denies the deity of Christ--although, while its not a point of argument, I believe he inherited it from His Father when He received the Kingdom.

John 7:39. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

The reason I mention this is that it was interesting to me that the scripture you pointed out was the first point I encountered of trinity consideration, and which started my study of the subject. I guess because of that I thought that Rev. was among the first points pondered by most others.

qwerty

Ros

Thank you for a little insight into how you came to be where you are now. The TV show sounded great, wish I could have seen that one!

It's nice to be able to discuss our thoughts and feeling about scripture. That's something we were denied before when believing in the "truth". It would be a shame if we turned back to being so dogmatic that we can not even agree to disagree, if you know what I mean.

I agree that there does not seem to be a viable explanation of these texts if one denies the deity of Christ--although, while its not a point of argument, I believe he inherited it from His Father when He received the Kingdom.
John 7:39. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

I don't believe as some do that Jesus was some sort of God in Mans form on whilst on earth.EDITED due to my shear ignorance this is not correct, Jesus was resurected and so was God in bodly form. But he did receive all authority (seems to indicate the Kingdom authority) in Heaven and on Earth ( I got this wrong sorry EDITED see other posts,I am changing my name to Twerpy )before his death and resurrection. He didn't pour out the Spirit fully untill his resurrection. His followers left behind, needed the Helper, so He was poured out.

Matthew 28:16. Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them.
17. And when they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted.
18. Then Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19. "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20. "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.'' Amen.

Thanks again Ros and everyone else for their input.

qwerty

Lurkers scripture's that got my wife to go Mmmm!

Share this