Blondie, Do you think the writers just put that in the book to be sure the elder's know the Watch Tower Corporation has control of the local buildings? I have to be thinking they think these books out pretty well. Especially a corporation policy book such as this. Or am I watching too many tv mysteries?
Governing Body claims title to Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls
by garybuss 57 Replies latest jw friends
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garybuss
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aniron
"What then are the "belongings"? These are all the spiritual assets on earth that have become Christ's property in connection with his authority as heavenly King. Included are facilities at the headquarters of Jehovah's Witnesses, along with branch offices, Kingdom Halls, and Assembly Halls worldwide."
So lets see then 15 years ago the congregation I was in raised £160,000, to build a new KH. Plus we borrowed money from the WT fund, to which we had been contributing for years and was charged interest on. We pay for the upkeep and maintenance, just spent £25,000 on repairs, redecoration and new heating system.
But it still doesn't belong to the congregation!!
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garybuss
CONSTRUCTION VOLUNTEER
The construction of Kingdom Halls and Assembly Halls is a
form of sacred service, similar to the work of constructing
Solomon's temple. (1 Ki. 8:13-18) Many brothers and sisters show
outstanding zeal for Jehovah's organization by volunteering their
time and assets to support and have a part in this work.
Organized to Do Jehovah's Will Page 116 -
garybuss
Witness have to be "approved" to do volunteer work. Clever idea!In many lands, Regional Building Committees are appointed
to oversee Kingdom Hall construction or renovation. Each
committee is assigned to assist congregations in a particular region.
Elders with secular experience in construction, real estate,
business, accounting, and other related fields make up the
committee, thus providing valuable guidance for a project from
beginning to end.
If a Regional Building Committee is available in the area,
elders should contact it before starting a Kingdom Hall project.
The regional committee can assist a congregation in selecting
suitable property and deciding on construction methods. It will also
coordinate the use of workers who volunteer to help with
construction. In support of this arrangement, all who qualify and
desire to serve are encouraged to complete a volunteer worker
application and give it to their local Congregation Service
Committee for approval.
Organized to Do Jehovah's Will Page 124 -
Golden Girl
Isn't it true that the witnesses worked to get donations and raise money used their free time and energy..getting supplies often time free where they work to build assembly halls..then they have to pay rent to use them?
And didn't they have to split up a lot of their assets a few years ago to protect them from lawsuits? (Child abusers)
Snoozy..who was always under the impression the buildings belonged to the WTBTS not the people!
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Mary
Garybuss said: Mary, I'd hope there's a God to direct justice too:-) What do you think about the Kingdom Hall ownership question?
I'm shocked in one sense; in another sense I'm not shocked at all. Seeing as it's the local congregations that have to pay the mortgage on each Kingdom Hall, I (foolishly) assumed it would be like when you buy a house and pay the mortgage: once the mortgage is paid off, the house belongs to YOU---not the bank or anyone else.
So if I'm understanding this scenario correctly: Each congregation buys or builds their own Kingdom Hall with the mortgage borrowed from Brooklyn with interest (even though de bible says they shouldn't be charging interest ( Exodus 22:25: "If you should lend money to my people.......you must not become like a usurer to him. YOU must not lay interest upon him.") The monthly mortgage is paid for 15 or 20 years until the mortgage is paid off. At the end, each local congregation STILL doesn't own the building---the WTB&TS does.
This is paramount to getting a mortgage from the bank for a home, paying it off faithfully every month for 15 or 20 years and then when it's finally paid off, you have to sign the deed over to the bank, so they still own it instead of you.
This is disgusting and I'm amazed that more Witnesses (in particular elders) haven't complained about this-----it's highway robbery for crissakes. Not only are they making tons of interest on the money they lend each congregation, but at the end, they still own all the property anyway!!
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garybuss
Hi Mary,
It's looking like a great scam. Loan the money. Get the money back. Get to control the property acquired with the loan. -
Maverick
I agree, Gary that the WTS may be opting to set a precedent where they plant a seed and in the future hope they can use it in one of two ways. 1) Bluff, if some local cong balks at the WTS pushing them around the WTS may pull this quote out and use it as "proof" that they, the WTS, are and have allways been in control. Or 2) should someone not fall for the bluff they can use this quote in court to show that the WTS had established this policy with the full knowledge and consent of the RF.
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blondie
Legally in the US, the congregations still control the sale, purchase, remodel, etc. of monies for the KH. Notice, if 3 congregations share a KH, only the congregation that holds the territory the building rests in has the legal authority. The other 2 have to hope that the first congregation considers their wishes.
If that congregation is dissolved, then the building, land, and other property reverts to the WTS.
Does the WTS have some psychological hold over the congregation? Well, of course. But then many of us have seen BOEs buck the trend and survive; refusing to do what the CO and DO strong "suggest."
Scripturally, the WTS sees the ownership of all these buildings, land, property as belonging to Christ and they see themselves as Christ's steward.
But the US government does not see it that way. Nonprofit corporations do not own anything. That is the premise that allows them to be tax-free. There is a form that the congregation having legal authority has to submit yearly to the IRS to continue to be eligible for that. They have to make sure that the corporate officers are all qualified, not dead or DF'd or moved away and legally selected by the BOE. Under this arrangement everything you donate to the KH goes to this nonprofit corporation. It is not an investment into a corporation made up of the congregation members all holding equal shares.
I'm sure that the WT corporations are set up the same way.
Interestingly, this also protects the elders from being sued individually (except for a few exceptions)
Forming a nonprofit corporation normally protects the directors, officers and members of the nonprofit from personal liability for the corporation's debts and other obligations. Called "limited liability," this shield ensures that anyone who obtains a judgment against the nonprofit can reach only the assets of the corporation, not the bank accounts, houses or other property owned by the individuals who manage, work for or participate in the business.
As long as these are the laws of the land, not much the WTS can do except exert pressure behind the scenes which they have always done. Legally, the ball is in the congregation's court.
Blondie
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apocalypse
This is new in a way.
The wording is new and quite forthright. In the past, congregation elders held the title deed and the WTBTS had the elders by the short hairs.
In a sense the local elders were the proxy through which the WTBTS held control of the real property.
As time went by, the WTBTS had less and less faith in their own control over local elders, so they have taken it a step further.
Recently, we paid off our KH. The loan was held by the Canadian Branch, and therefore the title deed was kept by them until the loan was paid at which point it would come to us.
The elder responsible for the books requested the title deed be sent to us at the local level after the final payment was made. He asked again and again. They never even responded. (Thanks Ken Little.)
Imagine. They cashed the check and ignored his inquiry.
He asked and asked until he had a stroke. Now he's out of commision and nobody else has the balls to ask.
Then a letter was read that stated Circuit Overseers are now in charge legally of all properties. Then the wording changes in the organized book.
Yes, it is new for those who missed it.
A brother in our hall was boasting one day about how the local elders were in control of the real property.
I corrected him. He defiantly stood his ground believing the old rules still applied (as noted above)
Now he sees.
By the way Georgetown, you will look long and hard for me, but woe unto you if you are successful