There are also a number of examples in deuter-Pauline usage of similar expressions such as House of God and household of God that refer to the congregation. However it has been suggested (see first post) that the passage was drawing from an earlier written apocalypse now lost but in the style of Daniel and Enoch, which would make the expression not surprizing. The reader would simple have done what readers always do, find a modern 'application'.
thing restraining
by peacefulpete 26 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Leolaia
The interpretation I suggested had the following entities:
1) Satan (v. 9) = the Restraining One (masculine) (v. 7)
2) "the mystery of lawlessness" (v. 7) = the Restraining Thing (neuter) (v. 6)
3) Man of Lawlessness, Son of Destruction (v. 3) = "him" (v. 6) = Lawless One (v. 8)
4) Lord Jesus (v. 8)I admit the text is ambiguous about WHAT is being restrained. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by a "two-party" interpretation. But if the "Restraining One" (masculine) is identified instead with the "Man of Lawlessness" instead of "Satan", then the parallel between the removal of the Restraining One and the removal/descent of Satan from heaven would be lost, and it would make the "removal" presumably the same event as the destruction of the Lawless One described in v. 8. This would mean that the Restraining One is active "right now" (arti), but in secret since the "revealing" of the Man of Lawlessness/"him" is still future. But the tote "then" in v. 8 seems to place the revealing of the Lawless One after his own REMOVAL, which would mean that the removal would be from his current "hidden" place to the open in his revealing. Is that a fair description of what you are proposing?
1) Satan (v. 9)
2) "the mystery of lawlessness" (v. 7) = the Restraining Thing (neuter) (v. 6)
3) Man of Lawlessness, Son of Destruction (v. 3) = "him" (v. 6) = the Restraining One (masculine) (v. 7) = Lawless One (v. 8)
4) Lord Jesus (v. 8)In that case, a possible parallel to the revealing would be to the beasts rising out of the sea and out of the earth in Revelation 13.
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peacefulpete
The ingrediants are the same in that Satan is ultimately behind the scene but in focus are only 2 chracters, the man of lawlessness and the Lord. I'm not sure that Revelation's take on the motif need be paralleld in such detail. In fact the parallel being posed seems strained to me.
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hmike
Pete, getting back to what you originally proposed, your quotation of the literal translation is:
For the mystery already works of lawlessness, only he restraining him now, until out of midst it comes.
From my interlinear, it comes is the Greek genetai (sorry, I don't know how to do Greek letters here). Your hypothesis seems to depend on what it comes refers back to. Your rendering uses the masculine pronoun to refer to the one doing the restraining, so it doesn't seem to be in agreement with it comes.
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Leolaia
The literal rendering doesn't capture the sense of REMOVAL (out of one's presence, not into one's presence) that the idiom has in other texts:
"But through the care and diligence of his friends, who were very instant with him, and added force to their entreaties, he came to resolve and promise at last, that he would endure living provided it might be in solitude and remote from company (zén kath' heauton ek mesou genomenos); so that, quitting all civil transactions and commerce with the world for a long while after his first retirement, he never came into Corinth, but wandered up and down the fields, full of anxious and tormenting thoughts, and spent his time in desert places, at the farthest distance from society and human intercourse" (Plutarch, Timoleon 5.4, 6.1).
"[Otanes said]: 'I for my part will not compete among you; for I wish neither to rule nor be ruled, and on that condition I stand apart from the rule, on condition that I will not be ruled by any of you, neither I myself nor those descended from me on each and every occasion.' After he had said that, when the six were agreeing to that condition, that one indeed would not compete among them, but sat down out of their midst (ek mesou katésto)" (Herodotus, Histories 3.83).
See also touton ek mesou ginesthai in John Chrysostom (Ad eos qui scandalizati sunt, 10.10), and heós hou ek mesou genétai ho Satanas in Athanasius (Expositiones In Psalmos, 27.257); this last source seems to have been influenced by 2 Thessalonians 2:7 and if so identifies Satan as the one who is removed (nominative).
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peacefulpete
But the tote "then" in v. 8 seems to place the revealing of the Lawless One after his own REMOVAL, which would mean that the removal would be from his current "hidden" place to the open in his revealing.
It seems to me that tote' here is not suggesting a strict 'this then' sequence but simply a corollary detail such as how it is used at 1 Cor 4:5. There the praise from god is not separate from the judgement it is an aspect of it, a result.
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A Paduan
man of lawlessness - one who does not have the law to themself, but has the 'law' applied to him, retraining him - ie. the literal, non-spiritual understanding of the Law - this one is revealed as things change A.D. - could be viewed as rising from the sea of man, as rise is what it is about, but as said above, is not of those who "do by nature what the law requires, (and) they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law" - rather it is the presentation of the lawless literalist who is restrained by the same, and unawares of the darkness.