The Truth Hurts The Most (page 2)

Fatfreek

Point out that their "love" is so profound that they will violate a basic tenet of Christianity and no longer honor their parents if they get "disfellowshipped". They cannot have any normal contact with them if they no longer are Jehovah's Witnesses. BUT if they lived in the same house, they could have normal contact!

This point of yours is profound in itself. I too am a parent in this condition. But when you think of it, if it's permissible to shun (which I don't believe it is) then what gives them the right to NOT SHUN with "... but it's okay if they live in the same house". Pure politics is what it is. They'd probably have the law all over them.

Same politics I learned when I went to Ministry School for Elders in the mid 70's. My question, as we learned the difference between disfellowshipping and disassociating was zilch. Why the two, I asked? Oh, brothers, we've learned to be cautious with our enemy. If we disfellowshipped someone who entered the military we'd be shut down in this country. We can't let that happen, can we? On the other hand, we can merely announce that so-and-so disassociated himself by joining. He did it! We didn't do it, understand?

I asked if that wasn't the "fear of man" that we were cautioned against and never got an answer.

greendawn

As mentioned further up this thread the JWs are not even allowed to talk with ex members, precisely because their leaders don't want them to hear these truths, it's all political to protect the very shaky position of their dogmas and therein their own authority. This ferocious prohibition on talking with ex JWs is a reflection of a hopelessly weak ideology that can very easily be taken apart by someone well informed.

There are many hard hitting truths, but how do you get them across? I even wonder why there was no uproar when the 1914 generation admission came out from the leaders themselves. That was one big 80 year long lie.

cyberguy

Min, I use to believe that the best approach was to use logic and reason. Unfortunately, I haven't been that successful with that approach. Probably the reason is, that most of those who became JW's in adult life got into it mainly because of its emotional appeal, not logic and reason. So my new approach is to appeal to emotional needs first, with logic and reason second.

I recently had an opportunity to try this out on a young JW couple, and oh boy, did I get an ear load! I started the conversation off by asking them how they felt about never doing enough in the organization, no matter how much one does it's never enough! This eventually led to a brief discussion about some really crazy WT teachings, and I provided them a reference in WT literature for further examination. I'll make an RV soon; it looks very promising! -- hehe

Mamacat

You make some great points.

I am too scared to point out stuff to my mom because I am afraid she'd stop talking to me. I am not df'd or da'd as I was never baptized...but I've been lucky that we have a good relationship. I love my mom...I just hate her religion.

I'd love to show her the UN connection if I could do it without her wondering how I found out about it.

I'd love to be able to say something that really made her think about the dubs logically and start to see the fallacies.

My husband who doesn't know much about the JW's at all was really surprised that they don't accept blood transfusions. Then, I told him about how they can take blood fractions...like the Rhogam shot I just got...but how at one time they couldn't take that either. My mom had told me that it was banned when I was born. Now, I think by that time the policy had been reversed (1976, anyone know?), but she was not a practicing dub at that time...but she had "no blood" ingrained in her. She is Rh-, and so am I, and I was her first (and only child.) She didn't quite understand how the Rh factor worked, but she told me a few times if I had been Rh+ and needed a blood transfusion, she wouldn't have done it. (It doesn't affect first pregnancies)
:( It makes me so sad that they have beliefs that they don't even understand..but she would have been prepared to let me die because of it! I also think that is a big reason that I don't have any siblings! Everytime I get that shot, she tells me "That's made from blood, you know? Did they tell you that?" I told her the other day when she said that, well since my last 3 kids have had + blood, without that shot each time, one or more of them could have been born really sick! She doesn't get it..ARGH!

steve2

In the words of Paul Simon: "A man sees what he wants to see/and disregards the rest".

I once thought that because the JWs were so big on reasoned arguments, they'd easily see all the stuff that's been going on behind governing-body doors. How wrong I was! They didn't even want to know there was a door, let alone what was going on behind one.

The most persuasive way to reach someone who refuses to see? Credit them with an ability to sooner or later come to their senses. Pushing the issue just makes 'em more determined to ignore the door exists.

EvilForce

I tell them my story. I tell them how growing up gay in a religion that taught hate and not love or acceptance. I tell them about how my family relationship is strained because I simply do not want to be a Dub. I tell them how I was "marked" by brothers and sisters for going to college and what that entails. How that made me feel. I tell them about my friend who tried to kill himself at 17 as a Dub because he felt so unloved and so guilty because of masterbation. It's truly sad and disgusting how many stories of mine and friends of mine I can relate to them. It brings the story alive.... they see the pain first hand.

MidwichCuckoo

I find the blood thing weird. A JW can have the ''loop'' system during surgery, but cannot donate HIS/HER own blood to be transfused for the forthcoming operation, as it would have been ''stored''. Well, WHERE do they think the blood ''fractions'' come from - STORED BLOOD!

blondie

Reveal that they have no priests and clergy but they do have elders that you must go through in order to be pleasing to God.

They have no clergy but claim exemption for the elders from reporting child sexual abuse if that state protects clergy from reporting.

Blondie

blondie

I will add that it is helpful to let them discover these things themselves.

Asking a sincere question such as, "did you notice that the Society says that blood fractions are a conscience matter? One product is Polyheme which is made out of hemoglobin, a blood fraction of red blood cells. Isn't that great that we could choose to use this? But when I was reading the description of it, it says it is made out of stored blood. Is that good; can a Christian use a product made out of stored blood? What do you think? Should we check with the HLC?"

Plant a seed

Blondie

MidwichCuckoo

Why did the Society change its standing on the blood issue? (BIBLICALLY) Is it trying to GRADUALLY phase it out?

The Truth Hurts The Most

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