ESP Proof?

by skyman 17 Replies latest jw friends

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  skyman

  Yesterday I read all the posts under the thead "i need some skeptic input... dreams that come true' by googlemagoogle. I could not help but see that some people were very opinionated one way or the other. Most just felt it was true because they had a dream or know some one who has. I heard over and over where the proof. HERE IS THE PROOF.

  I watched a program on the Discovery Station that did a scientific study on it. They put electrodes on volunteers then show them pictures of either a pleasant picture or an unpleasant picture. They found that our body prepares itself milliseconds before we actually see the unpleasant pictures. The study suggested our minds some how can see the future without subconsciously knowing.

  Also remote veiwing has been used by all the big governments for years. The CIA uses them. India has had great successful as of late. Russia has used their remonte veiwers with great success. The fact is this the Governments use them because it is TRUE

  http://www.remoteviewing.com/about-psitech/news-releases/remote-viewing-government-record.html

  http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/12-18d-04.asp

  http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/363/14682_paranormal.html

  Dr. Nunn http://members.fortunecity.com/templarser/bwave.html "We did this experiment to test the hypothesis that conscious decision-making is associated with the end of a quantum computation," says Dr Nunn."Very much to our surprise we found evidence that it was." Until very recently such an idea would have been rejected out of hand.But a new candidate for this role has emerged in the form of minute structures within brain cells called microtubeles. Endless ESP studies showing that people can identify the card someone is looking at in another room more accurately than chance, or even predict what card they are going to look at are given a rationale.
• 

  LittleToe

  What? Six hours and no reply?
  They were all over the other thread like white on rice...
• 

  IP_SEC

  I gotta stop just looking at the active topics.

  I dont believe consciousness ends where the grey matter meets the cranium. We have em fields that permeate spacetime out past our bodys. Anyone who knows how wacked QM is when it comes to our normal perception of the universe/multiverse understands that there is not always a cause needed for an effect, sometimes the effect is the cause.

  Are our brains little quantum computers that can process data from the effect before the cause occurs? Hmmm.
• 

  greendawn

  I always believed that there was a mysterious force operating beyond the physical senses and it's great that there is at last some solid scientific proof for it.
  
  There are no doubt great mysteries regarding the brain waiting to be discovered.
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  IP_SEC

  One of the problems I see with the scientific community is the in ablility to dream, and hope and wonder.

  Do I believe in the laws of Thermodynamics? Of course. You can set your watch be it. Am I married to TD as they exist today? NO, am I married to QD, and GR as they exist today? NO! Why? Because if history teaches us anything it is that our common notions of the universe change.

  Gosh, think of where we would be if we rigorously held to Newtonian physics instead of embracing GR?
• 

  jaffacake

  One of the problems I see with the scientific community is the in ablility to dream, and hope and wonder.

  Isn't this a contradiction with the gist of your post? If scientists did not dream, hope and wonder, they would still be working within Newtonian physics. All the developments you mentioned confirm that scientists are some of the few people on this planet who do dream, hope and wonder.
• 

  jaffacake

  But Dr Penrose is not very happy with a mystical free-for-all.He locates his quantum effects firmly within the brain.
  "I am very cautious about the quantum - psychic connection.It is entertaining speculation but that's all. Quantum mechanics has very specific rules.For instance,complex numbers are central to the theory but people who construct quantum-based mystical metaphors ignore them because they don't fit."
  "I think there is strong evidence for precognition but I haven't done the maths yet to work out what else is allowed," he says.

  A quote from your link. I have an open mind, albeit a sceptical one. But frankly to me this falls short of being 'proof' of anything. Interesting stuff though.
• 

  IP_SEC

  I feel that a select few are the true dreamers. Many seem to me some what locked in to a ridged view of the universe. Perhaps it is just my perception.
• 

  tetrapod.sapien

  LT,

  the fact that no one has replied in six hours may be because it is sunday.

  IP,

  Am I married to TD as they exist today? NO, am I married to QD, and GR as they exist today? NO! Why? Because if history teaches us anything it is that our common notions of the universe change.

  you make a valid point here. however, when if ever, will you be married to any scientific laws or theories? when will they be "right enough" for you to refer to them in confidence? 10 years? 20 years? 300 years? will there ever be a time in the future when DNA is composed of three helix's instead of two? so yes, we can't be dogmatic, but we can refer to current knowledge with confidence, especially when debating magical thinking. after all, that's all we have now. if we just await new truth in the future, we are not going to get anything done now.

  skyman,

  thanks for describing the science experiment you watched on discovery. i was hoping to have the name of the scientists who performed it, so i may review their methodology and sources. but in the mean time, a couple of things standout to me:

  • "milliseconds before" is hardly conclusive. most cases of reported ESP happen more than milliseconds before.
  • if the subject knew that there was a possibility of an unpleasant picture coming, then isn't the fact that they might have been aware of it beforehand, really just hindsight? i mean, we're talking millisconds.

  anyways, getting my hands on the paper published by the scientists will tell a lot. are they paranormal researchers, or skeptics?

  also, thanks for the links regarding government use of psychics. but like jaffacake said, there really is no evidence in you presenting us with this stuff. plus, your whole argument is based around a logical fallacy called Appeal to Authority. and really, that is the same tactic that the governing body of jehovahs witnesses use. without giving any evidence that they are gods spokesman, they turn around and say that they are gods spokesman, and that is the reason why we should listen to them and agree with them. jsy because the governemnt does it, doesn't mean their not wrong. it's not about who holds a position. it's all about evidence.
• 

  IP_SEC

  when will they be "right enough" for you to refer to them in confidence?

  They are right enough now, I have confidence in them now.

  so yes, we can't be dogmatic,

  Thats my only point, perhaps I was too wordy in making it. There is a differance between dogma and confidence. Dogma doesnt allow for changes in points of view. It becomes weirsome when some one looks down their nose at a posit that that, has not, or cannot yet be proven. I consider this close mindedess.

  I'm not saying we should be gulible and just fall for the next 'free energy device' or 'prove of ESP' but too often I see the possiblities discounted. Thats all, I'd just like to see less dogmatism.