ESP Proof? (page 2)

Fatfreek

Purely anecdotal evidence? Yes!!! Happenchance? You be the judge. And yes, this even has to do with my leaving the bORG -- not that it has to.

The time was late 1977 and I had dropped my elder position, announced to my family I'd had it up to here (can you see my hand against my chin?) and I was working on a big loose end -- telling my mother. Mom, too, was a JW but in another state. We phoned each other every week but I felt I needed to tell her this sensitive announcement by way of a letter. I've still got a copy of that single-spaced, four page, heart-wrenching expository. Not a very good one by my thinking of today.

I mailed the letter and waited for our weekly phone call deciding I'd let Mom do the calling this time. That didn't happen. I then suspected she was crushed. I sensed all kinds of bad things. I thought she probably shared the letter with the elders there and they told her to begin the shunning. To this day I don't know why but the fact is, our weekly phone calls were zilch and I continued to outwait her, feeling the ball was in her court. I'd poured out my heart and soul in that letter.

It was now six months and I felt that was long enough. It was early 1978 when I decided to pick up the phone and call her. I dialed her number but it didn't ring. Is something wrong with this phone, I thought? I was about to hang up and try again when I heard Mom's voice from the other end, "Leonard?".

"Mom, is that you? Did your phone ring? Did you simply pick up the phone?"

My mother told me that her phone didn't ring, that she had called me and had the same result -- she'd heard no ring.

The fact is, admittedly unscientific, purely anecdotal -- that we both called each other simultaneously. We hadn't talked for some six months until this moment.

No, I never pressed her for a response to my letter. In those days there was no shunning of direct relatives and that was fine with me. I simply wanted to finally share that experience with someone because it sort of fit this thread.

sonnyboy

It makes sense to me. I don't believe that psychic phenomena are necessarily due to "evil spirits" like the JWs, but possibly something within ourselves that we've yet learned to master.

I can't even count the amount of times that I've thought of random, insignificant subjects and immediately saw something directly related on TV. Almost every day I mistake someone on TV for someone else or mistake one movie for another, only to flip the channel and see the very person or movie I was thinking of. Also, I'd say 70% of the time, I get an extremely anxious feeling just before the phone rings, whether I'm expecting a call or not. The list goes on.

We may never find a definitive explanation for such happenings. Why doesn't this appy to everyone? Why can't everyone control it?

Most likely, believing is the first step. We live in a society that bases reality on proof, which is beneficial for the most part, so it's hard to be open to something for which proof doesn't exist. Our senses seem to highten when we believe in or are expecting something, whereas denial forms a mental block. It's sort of like a scary movie: When we think something's getting ready to jump out of the cupboard, we jump when it happens. If we're not expecting much from the movie, our reactions are less intense.

skyman

tetrapod.sapian

I have tried to find the information about the show on the discovery station but can not. But the simple fact the Govenrment uses the remote viewers shows all of us that there is something to it. I would doubt that the government would continue to use these men without positive results. I have read the accounts of the remote viewers using their abilty with unreal accuracy which they could not have been able to by chance. Also to go back to the Discovery show the body did not react right before a pleasant picture was shone so it was not anything less the the abilty to know the future or it would have had the same results with all the pictures.

Thats my thinking I don't believe that the Spirits are doing this but there is something in our mind that does.

drwtsn32

I say it's BS. Yes, from what I have heard the government *did* experiment with remote viewing and other psychich phenomena in the past, but no longer does so because they never produced any tangible results.

I challenge believers to show a true scientific double-blind study that confirms the ability for someone to perform "remote viewing."

Abaddon

Proof smoof...

There has NEVER been a case of precognition recorded in an incontravertable and unambiguous fashion prior to the event. NEVER. Not even by people who claim they have pregonitive events often, and therefore would have the opportunity to prove precogniton once-and-for-all on a regular basis.

This defies credulity, if any believers would care to account for this lack of evidence or rebutt this statment with evidence, I would appreciate it.

No person has ever managed to display psychokinetic powers in controlled experiments in multiple centres.

If any believers would care to account for this lack of evidence I would appreciate it.

No person has ever managed to transmit usable data in controlled experiments in multiple centres.

If any believers would care to account for this lack of evidence or rebutt this statment with evidence, I would appreciate it.

No person has ever managed to 'remotely view' under a classic 'double blind' experiment.

If any believers would care to account for this lack of evidence or rebutt this statment with evidence, I would appreciate it. Skyman, saying 'But the simple fact the Govenrment uses the remote viewers shows all of us that there is something to it' is not proof; the government have been mistaken and wasted money in the past you know.

The 'proof given' is an article on a website about remoteviewing; yes, of course, that's 'proof', two newspaper articles with no documentary evidence or corroboartion what-so-ever, and an experiment that hasn't been duplicated yet.

None of that is 'proof'.

Oh and the metareviews by Radin have been questioned;

http://members.cruzio.com/~quanta/review.html.

Basically either paranormal powers are so unreliable, weak and useless as to thus far defy scientific proof (which is convenient, think of anything else people have believed in that defies scientific proof, ooooo, can anybody see a pattern here *slaps forehead*), or they don't exist.

Any one with evidence worth a damn, or an explanation for the LACK of evidence where logically there should be evidence if the phenomena exists, feel free.

Oh, and my stance is I WISH there were mindpowers, but can't prove it even thought I'd love it to be true.

Mary

Skyman said: I watched a program on the Discovery Station that did a scientific study on it. They put electrodes on volunteers then show them pictures of either a pleasant picture or an unpleasant picture. They found that our body prepares itself milliseconds before we actually see the unpleasant pictures. The study suggested our minds some how can see the future without subconsciously knowing.

I saw that too, a few months ago..........very interesting stuff..........I think there's a lot more going on upstairs in the grey matter than what we might think.

Terry

Sigh....

Okay. Let's go.

Tests yield data.

The data is then INTERPRETED as to

"meaning".

The very same shtick you get with the Bible.

People predisposed to believe certain things always find it there in black and white.

I saw that too, a few months ago..........very interesting stuff..........I think there's a lot more going on upstairs in the grey matter than what we might think.

The potential for gullibility among humanity is just heartbreaking. We find what we expect to find. We are convinced of what we expect to be convinced of. Our predisposition makes us vulnerable.

More skepticism and less credulity wouldn't hurt anybody.

T.

tetrapod.sapien

We find what we expect to find.

...like the "biblical archaeologist": with trowel in one hand and bible in the other.

ESP Proof?

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