If you already got coerced into becoming an unbaptized publisher, you'll soon after be coerced into being baptized.
I feel for you. You'll be in this painful double life like so many of us here. It's awful. Really sorry.
DY
Tonight, I talk to the elders about becoming an unbaptised publisher.
by Buck 69 Replies latest jw friends
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Stealth
Many JWs have a saying they like to use, "When in doubt, leave it out!"
You should apply that here, it sounds like your not sure if you should take this step (doubt), call off your meeting tonight, come down sick and put it off at least for a few more weeks so you can think this through all of the way.
You are about to start a life based on conditional love. Do you really want that? I can tell you from experience, you will regret it later, it may be a few years down the road and you will look back at the time you waisted getting tied up with someone who will only love you based on their terms.
Good luck!
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Sunspot
I feel so sorry for you! Being a JW is not like being a Baptist. It entails so MANY details that will affect your life from here on out. It's not like becoming a member of another religion to make a peaceful marriage.
Not only wil you be required to attend all those meetings, field service and assemblies, you will have to toss away your relationships outside the Kingdom Hall----with family and friends you've known and loved all your life. "Bad association" is frowned on by the WTS.
Have you really considered that you will never again celebrate ANYTHING except for a mutilated version of Communion at the "memorial"? No birthdays, Mother's day, Christmas, Easter---the whole bit. You won't be able to vote, join the YMCA to use the facilities, or go to movies that are rated "R". This is only a small example of your life for the future.
I'm sure that your girlfriend is under the impression that this will be a good "move", being a JW like she is, but it really is NOT a good move at all. You WILL be left with the short end of the stick--either way.
Take it from someone who was a 30 year veteran of this lying organization. Do NOT be roped into being baptized----for anyone. If you already have this many doubts----it isn't for you!
Best wishes,
Annie
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BONEZZ
Oh yeah...and then they'll want you to join the "school" and give little readings and talks in front of your new family...yes your new family...gosh that has a nice ring to it. And they'll always be there for you...not like your worldly, fleshly family...you know those gross worldlies that conceived and raised you. I hope you've already severed ties to any previous family. 5 meetings a week and throw out that television because there won't be time to watch with all the personal study you'll need to do...and before you know it your little wifey will pioneer and hey wait a minute...why aren't you reaching out for Ministerial Servant...and then ELDERHOOD. That'll make her soooo happy and proud. OPEN YOUR EYES NOW AND AVOID THE HEARTBREAK OF JW-ISM!!!
-BONEZZ
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jaffacake
A Warm Welcome
You know her better that any of us do. Which information about JWs would have an impact on her if she found out the truth about the truth? My advice is to try to find a way to reveal to her some facts that will possible make her think about making further enquiries.
Have you been on the quotes site which only includes watchtower quotes but exposes JWs for what they are? Would she read quotes from past watchtowers. Research some and have her look them up herself and discuss with you. Perhaps the ones about being a prophet?
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Buck
Well, Iam not sure what to do.
Is this the correct next step?
Russel, Rutherford, 1914, belief vs exercise faith, etc is just the tip of the iceberg as far as questions I have.
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blondie
Buck, I have held off saying anything.
First, are you doing this because you love Christ and God or because you love this woman?
Second, would you marry a woman you didn't understand or know much about? Then why get peromanently attached to a religion that you seem to know little about.
Third, don't get baptized until you do know.
Fourth, what are issues that are important to you, non-negotiable, regardless of how much you care about the individual? Those are the ones you need to examine very closely from more than the WTS angle.
We can't read your mind or your heart. You are the only one who can make this examination. My husband studied because of me but did not share his doubts with me. He was baptized. Then it took more than ten painful years to learn that the WTS was not what it advertised itself to be and never would be.
So be wary.
Love, Blondie
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jaffacake
Is this the correct next step?
Russel, Rutherford, 1914, belief vs exercise faith, etc is just the tip of the iceberg as far as questions I have.
Hi Buck, not sure where it is best to start with her. But be kind and loving. Scriptures COMMAND Christians to keep testing their faith. How does she intend to do this? Perhaps ask her how she knows they were appointed by God, and when did this appointment happen (Answer 1919) Then show her 90 years of publications that prove them wrong about hundreds of things. But if they get information from God, how are they the only religion with a 100% failure rate with every prophecy & prediction? They claim to be a prophet (Watchtower 1972) Have her look up that Watchtower. Deuteronomy states that if someone's prediction in the name of God does not come to pass, they are a false prophet. There are many proofs of false prophecy. If you pm me with an email address I can send you stuff in the coming weeks.
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jaffacake
Watchtower 1972 April 1 197-9 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them' ‘They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them’
JEHOVAH GOD is interested in having people know him. Though he is invisible to human eyes, he provides various ways by which they can know his personality. They can know what to expect from him and what he expects of them.
One can come to understand that Jehovah is a God of surpassing wisdom by observing creation. This also reveals the loving care with which he designed things for man’s welfare and enjoyment. A second way to know God is through his Word of truth, the Bible. Herein one finds the full expression of Jehovah’s purpose toward mankind—why man is on the earth and the blessings that God has in store.
A third way of coming to know Jehovah God is through his representatives. In ancient times he sent prophets as his special messengers. While these men foretold things to come, they also served the people by telling them of God’s will for them at that time, often also warning them of dangers and calamities. People today can view the creative works. They have at hand the Bible, but it is little read or understood. So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?
IDENTIFYING THE “PROPHET”
These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? The clergy of the so-called “Christian” nations hold themselves before the people as being the ones commissioned to speak for God. But, as pointed out in the previous issue of this magazine, they have failed God and failed as proclaimers of his kingdom by approving a man-made political organization, the League of Nations (now the United Nations), as “the political expression of the
However, Jehovah did not let the people of Christendom, as led by the clergy, go without being warned that the League was a counterfeit substitute for the real . He had a “prophet” to warn them. This “prophet” was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. They are still proclaiming a warning, and have been joined and assisted in their commissioned work by hundreds of thousands of persons who have listened to their message with belief.
Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a “prophet” of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?
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jaffacake
Buck
In my last post the Watchtower asked what the record shows. See if she will research this with you in the coming weeks to help you to get rid of your doubts. Here is one example (posted by a friend on this board last week) dealing with just one aspect of their false prophesy & failed predictions.
Charles Russell taught early on that the "little flock" spoken of in the Bible meant the small number of true believers who constituted the "bride of Christ". The "heavenly kingdom" had supposedly been established when Christ returned invisibly in 1874, and the kingdom rule was expected to extend to earth 40 years later, in 1914. This year marked the end of the "appointed times of the nations", so the earth's leaders were to be overthrown (p 101 ), clearing the way for God's kingdom on earth . Meanwhile, the remaining "Little Flock" members on earth would be transferred to heaven to become be earth's divine new rulers together with Christ. Mankind on earth would not be destroyed, but serve in a 1000 year "probation" period under the new management with a goal of becoming perfect humans like Adam in the garden. The "little flock" would become "redeemer" and "spirtual mother" for all generations of mankind, having the ability to appear on earth as invisible spirits or by materializing into physical bodies.
Russell got the details on this from a man named Nelson Barbour, who described this very plan in his books and magazines. Barbour had come from a big movement led by Baptist preacher William Miller , who calculated through passages in Daniel and Revelation that 1843 (later 1844) was the year of Christ's return. After his prediction failed, Miller admitted he was wrong about the whole date-setting thing and called it quits. Some of his followers, however, insisted that something invisible really did happen on that year. Many others including Barbour came up with countless new end-date predictions along with new ideas and explanations on the ultimate fate of mankind.
Barbour identified 1874 as the year of Christ's return by "correcting" Miller's calculations and publicized the big news in his magazine . After 1874 passed with nothing happening, rather than admit failure Barbour started to claim that he was right after all, that Christ actually had returned, except that it was an "invisible presence" and no one could see him. His magazine nearly went broke because hardly any of his subscribers bought this story. But one reader--a young and wealthy CT Russell--was so impressed with these ideas that he became Barbour's partner in the magazine operation. Russell adopted all of Barbour?s chronology (1914, 1874 , 1799 , etc.) along with his specific views on the coming kingdom.
After Russell and Barbour broke things off, Russell started molding these ideas in his own new "- 1918 , rather than 1878, is now the year that the dead members of the 144,000 were resurrected to heaven.
- 1935 , rather than 1881, is now the year that the full number of the 144,000 was chosen.
- Some of the 144,000 will remain on earth for a while to set up the Kingdom, rather than the "ancient worthies" (Abraham, Isaac, etc.). A big WT campaign had promoted the idea that these "ancient worthies" would be resurrected to perform such a duty in 1925, and a mansion was later built for them in San Diego, but this understanding was eventually changed.
- Once the Great Crowd was identified (through 's "flash of divine light") a harsher view of Armageddon was implemented. Not only will Church and Government institutions be destroyed, but no living person outside of the organization could really expect to be spared from destruction--not even their kids (Riches, Rutherford, 1936, p. 98)...Many past generations will still be resurrected, though. In contrast, Russell had taught that just about everyone would live to get a chance at redemption in the new system.
- 1914 , rather than 1874, is now the year that Christ returned invisibly. 1914 is also the start of the last days, rather than 1799. One calculation in support of 1874 (as the start of the millenium) was that 6,000 years of human history ended in 1873. This has been changed to 1975.
- The end of the "Gentile Times" in 1914 now marks the beginning of the end of the present system, rather than the actual end of the present system as originally promoted by Barbour/Russell.
- The 144,000 became the "Faithful Discreet Slave class" who are officially represented by an organization. The earthly kingdom is now considered to have arrived to earth in a spiritual sense through this organization. This is why you'll hear JWs speak of being in "spiritual paradise". The "spiritual mother" has become the organization itself. In contrast, Russell had taught that there would be no true organization set up until God fully sets up his kingdom on earth.