by Marvin Shilmer 37 Replies latest jw friends
Hi,
I really have no comments here, just an article I pulled today pertaining to Judges and blood transfusions. I made a separate thread, yet would like to insert it here, in this thread, just so it is sure to be read by most who are concerned:
< http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/211/metro/For_judges_after_hours_rulings_can_be_hardest+.shtml
Thank you, sKally
Alan, Maximus and francoise,
I'm chewing on your remarks. I have about 3 minutes before I have to go, so I can't be sure anything I write will be as cogent as I would like. Francoise, you are coorect that the org as a whole isn't very flexible/forgiving. But I think that's the nature of large organizations. I am at least willing to allow that some individuals in the upper echelons might be ignorant of all the facts and/or not in a position to do anything substantive about these doctrines. I think Maximus discussed his views(in a previous post) about their being some persons who seem to be genuinely concerned about the direction of the organization. I also believe that post got a lot of action! I may or may not be right on this one.
Alan. I must conced that somebody has acted dishonestly in the publication of the creation book. I do wonder, though, how many persons aside from the author have taken the time the investigate the issues, such as what Max posted. At any rate, I do think there must be some community responsibility, as the WT says.
I gotsa go. Thanks for the food for thought!
You're quite right, voltaire, that there is a measure of community responsibility. I know for a fact that the Society has received a number of letters questioning their claim about Richard Lewontin's remarks. They have completely failed to acknowledge that anything is wrong, much less to correct their errors. Thus they have compounded the initial misrepresentation. Again, this is standard procedure for JW leadership -- they simply do not admit error to anyone, unless they're forced into it.
AlanF
voltaire
You said
There is an alternative explanation to the dishonesty hypothesis. Complete and total ignorance.
I made a comment about the "few rounds with the stupid stick" idea on Maximus' thread. THEY HAVE AN "HIS" !!!!! THEY REVIEW MEDICAL JOURNALS!!! Read my comment's on what the HIS director in Canada presented.
There is one word, that as of yet I have not seen used to describe these men that know. I know.
Thanks Marvin for your outstand gifts to this board along with Maximus. I hope you enjoyed the package I sent you via Email the other day?
hawk
Hawk, would you explain HIS to those who are more familiar with Hospital Liaison Committee?
And why not put your comments here. Repeat them for the record.
The central issue on this thread is the really horrible and deadly blood policy. The dishonesty is so apparent on this one. My comments about Sir Fred (Hoyle, that is) are meant to emphasize that they are outrageous at what they do, not to get sidetracked on the honesty angle. Rank is a great word!
Comments have been made elsewhere to the effect that many inside simply do not have the skills to assess the lack of quality of material that gets in print, preferring to believe it is authentic because of its being in the Watchtower. It is those reprehensible ones who KNOW who must bear on their backs the death of innocent children.
We get excited about child abuse on this board. Forgive my repetition: is there any greater abuse than letting a child bleed to death because a group of men cling to a doctrine that many of them know is dead wrong?
With child abuse, they are going to be exposed in a major way unlike anything they could anticipate. They are going to reap the whirlwind. If they were smart, they would cut their losses and change the damnable policy.
Most JWs would point to this as evidence God is directing his organization, that it is progressive!
Maximus
In full venting fury tonight; I've been intimate with the ugly policy for many decades now, and it just stinks more as the days wear on.
Maximus,
You've expressed the distinction that I couldn't quite put into words. I feel pulled in different directions with regards to how much blame to apportion and to whom. What you said is right. Those who know the inconsistencies and do nothing, I have no tolerance for. They are as bad as Jim Jones. Those who simply swallow the party line without questioning, I feel differently about, maybe even a bit sorry for. There are clearly different degrees of responsibility.
Maximus,
I am at home so my files are not with me Maximus (I will edit this post tomorrow) but for now I hope this helps.
"HIS" means the Hospital Information Service.
This place in Brooklyn calls the shots with respect to the blood doctrine. What you see in the QFRs in the Watchtower on blood are directly from this section. They direct the Hospital Liason Committees, review the 3,600 to 4,000 medical journals, should have some doctors on staff and on and on it goes.
Major Spry is the head director of it in Brooklyn. This system, according to bibleexaminer, actually started in Canada and the main branch picked it up. Zenon M. Bodnaruk is now the Director of the Hospital Information Services (Canada), Georgetown, Ontario west of Toronto, Ontario.
In your thread Maximus, which Marvin has noted, you will find my comments on "page 3" of your thread. I am also posting Jerome's comment ahead of mine seeing it may help you understand where I was going with it and how it ties in with Marvin's comments.
Jerome (Jerry) said:
The question that "naturally" follows:To be consistent, why doesn't the FDS permit red blood cells?
That would solve the surgeon's dilemma in a huge number of cases involving exsanguination of blood; bleeding to death from trauma and the like.
On what basis could it be reasonably argued that red blood cells are different?
Jerome
Jerome,The answer is simple - Can you say "lawsuit".
Say the GB gets this "new light" of allowing whole blood or red blood cells.
How would you like to have given up your child since 1990 and then you find out that the science used by the WTS for albumin has known for years that red blood cells and white blood cells "naturally move" from one person to another. How would you like to find out that white cells that are banned in a June 15, 2000 WT QFR are actually allowed if taken as a peripheral stem cell autographing procedure (which is the same thing as a transfusion). How would you like to find out the Whole Blood actually "naturally moves" between two fetuses (humans in the eyes of the so-called Faithful and Discreet Slave) in monochorionic pregnancies. How would you feel seeing this science has been around for a long time. How would you feel, especially after you find out this organization has a huge Hospital Information service that is privy to all of this.
Talk about a lawsuit.
Oh, just in case you think maybe that the Hospital Information Service doesn't really understand medical journal stuff and you think, well maybe your typical blood nazis has just gone one to many rounds with the "stupid stick", consider the following September 2000 letter by Zenon M. Bodnaruk, Director of the Hospital Information Services (Canada), regarding a response to Dr. John Doyle in the Canadian Medical Association Journal at ( http://www.cma.ca/cmaj/vol-163/issue-5/0496a.htm . Note how this WTS guy sites references out of medline to try and support his case. He knows exactly what he is doing and how to manipulate. Based on that you can now see that these people knowingly know that they are needlessly killing people for one reason - protection of the corporation.
The question is Jerome, what one word best defines the the people who work at the HIS?
hawk
Hope that is what you wanted Maximus.
Just to let everyone know my one word is nine letters long, begins with "m" and ends with "ers".
If anyone is going to tell me that a group of specialists who have doctors on staff and have reviewed countless medical articles on blood don't have a clue about what happens with monochorionic pregnancies, then I don't have a degree from Queen's University in Kingston in a tube in my upstairs closet.
Hemoglobin comment
Oh, one other thing about the hemoglobin stuff, Marvin. The classic line by the Hospital Information People and Hospital Liason People is that hemoglobin is not blood anymore because it is made by specialized scientific processes.
Well if you believe that one people, I strongly remind you what Dr. Sam Muramoto taught me - banned red blood cells are only made from whole blood using man made specialized separator machines and specialized man made preservatives and anticoagulents. To separate platelets and white blood cells also takes more of these specialized man made processes. Like how many more lies can I take!!!!
hawk (please don't let the children die, please)
Oh, one other thing about the hemoglobin stuff, Marvin. The classic line by the Hospital Information People and Hospital Liaison People is that hemoglobin is not blood anymore because it is made by specialized scientific processes.
Yes, hawk, they do try and dress it up, don’t they! I bite my lip when comparing references to hemoglobin solutions.
When these substances were BANNED (prior to June 2000):
WTS HIS representative refers to it as "a blood substitute which uses hemoglobin taken from a human or animal source." (Ref: Bailey and Ariga, Artificial Cells, Blood Sub…, 1998 p. 573)
After these substances were ALLOWED (as of June 2000):
WTS HIS representative refers to it as "haemoglobin based oxygen carriers." (Ref: Wade, BMJ 2001;322:1123, 5 May. Link: http://bmj.com/cgi/content/full/322/7294/1123? )
Amazing isn’t it? We are supposed to see it as an illegal "hemoglobin taken from an animal" one day and the more innocent "haemoglobin based oxygen carrier" the next day.
Exactly what is this hemoglobin whatchamacallit? A company named Biopure manufactures a brand called Hemopure for human use. (Another similar product called Oxyglobin is produced by the same company—the WTS has yet to say if this is okay for pets owned by JWs.) According to Biopure, the manufacturing process of Hemopure is as follows:
At Biopure's separation facility, a filtration process removes plasma proteins in the bovine blood. Washed cells are next placed in a centrifuge that separates the red blood cells from the rest of the blood. The hemoglobin is extracted from the red blood cells and is then diafiltered to remove red blood cell wall debris and other contaminants. The resulting material is a cell-free hemoglobin intermediate. A semi-continuous purification process involving a high performance liquid chromatography process purifies the hemoglobin intermediate. Next, the purified hemoglobin is polymerized, or linked, by the addition of a cross-linking agent. Polymerized and stabilized material is then fractionated and concentrated. The final product is filtered into sterilized batch holding tanks until it is sterile filled into bags.
Basically Biopure describes hemoglobin being squashed out of red cells and then strained to eliminate the pulp (cell wall debris). Since hemoglobin alone would not provide a suitable media to effectively absorb and transport oxygen in the human circulatory system, it must first be cross-linked (bonded) with another material that essentially performs a job similar to the original cell membrane. This is called polymerization. Once hemoglobin is polymerized with another agent that allows it to take on and transport oxygen then it can be used effectively as the oxygen observing and emitting substance that it is, that is always was, even when it was in the host cow. This process is a significant medical tool in that it eliminates the need for type matching, and the shelf life is increased considerably. Because the final hemoglobin element is smaller that the original cell form, this product is also useful in cases of arterial blockage because the smaller elements are able to deliver oxygen through smaller openings.
In the end what is done? Hemoglobin is taken from a cow that has been killed and bled for the sole purpose of giving human beings life. There is no dressing this up. A cow is a cow, I don’t care if you polymerize it with a dress or anything else! Hemoglobin is hemoglobin. And it is hemoglobin that makes products like Hemopure tick.
Maximus,
We certainly agree about this WTS blood policy being another form of child abuse, a deadly one. Maybe we should give this a name. There are different sorts of child abuse. Maybe we should call this Child Blood Molestation (CBM)! My god, the WTS admits to it! They even posted faces of children killed as a result of this blood molestation! Not their finest hour.
At Biopure's separation facility, a filtration process removes plasma proteins in the bovine blood. Washed cells are next placed in a centrifuge that separates the red blood cells from the rest of the blood. The hemoglobin is extracted from the red blood cells and is then diafiltered to remove red blood cell wall debris and other contaminants. The resulting material is a cell-free hemoglobin intermediate. A semi-continuous purification process involving a high performance liquid chromatography process purifies the hemoglobin intermediate. Next, the purified hemoglobin is polymerized, or linked, by the addition of a cross-linking agent. Polymerized and stabilized material is then fractionated and concentrated. The final product is filtered into sterilized batch holding tanks until it is sterile filled into bags.
I don't know about anyone else, but when I read the above, one thought came to mind; this sounds yummy!!
So here I am, left wondering once again. If it turns out that hemopure is as tasty drizzled over ice-cream as it sounds, will the brooklyn puppeteers give me their blessing for my new dessert topping?
ps. them "polli-mers", thats kinda like fiber, right?
Max,
Child Blood Molestation (CBM)! My god, the WTS admits to it! They even posted faces of children killed as a result of this blood molestation! Not their finest hour.
Molestation and this blood policy do have one thing in common.
CONTROL!!!
As I have said elsewhere (I think "waiting" only picked up on it) these pedophiles do it, not for the sex, but for the CONTROL!!
Now here we have a blood policy that is enforced by the fear of shunning, fear of disassociation if you take it, fear of disfellowship if your kid takes it, fear of loss of God and fear of getting killed at the end. So you are taught through fear that you should let your child needlessly die. I say, IMNSHO, that this is a group of men controlling the outcome of the death of a child who cannot protect itself.
Child Blood Molestation - Good one Maximus. Oh, by the way Maximus, the press loves catchy little phrases like this - hint hint.
hawk
(Please read more at ( http://www.ajwrb.org and you can even see the cover of that disgusting Awake! magazine that Maximus is talking about)
