What is up with God requiring vindication?

M.J.

I've related before that I have started studying with a superbrother from the local congo. In the knowledge book we came across this quote:

*** kl chap. 2 p. 14 The Book That Reveals the Knowledge of God ***Did you know that the Bible has a common thread from Genesis through Revelation? Yes, a harmonious theme permeates the Bible. What is that theme? It is the vindication of God’s right to rule mankind and the realization of his loving purpose by means of his Kingdom.

I questioned the need for God to be vindicated...to me this implies that God has something to prove, which to me is not compatible with the ideas of omnipotence and total soveriegnty. From the dictionary, vindicate means: Vindicate v 1: show to be right by providing justification or proof; "vindicate a claim" [syn: justify ] 2: maintain, uphold, or defend; "vindicate the rights of the citizens" 3: clear of accusation, blame, suspicion, or doubt with supporting proof; "You must vindicate yourself and fight this libel" Source : WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University

To this question, superbro went into a speech about how we'll learn about God's personality, how the devil got his goat (not exactly his words!) and how "vindication" ties in with the purpose of God's people.

It seems to me like the WTS has put their own spin on God, along with his "frustrations", his limitations, and his reliance on certain people to set things straight for him. All this to lay pressure and motivation on members. I mean, that's a pretty heavy burden to shoulder: "God's depending on us to vindicate his name". Any thoughts on all this? Is this a Biblical view of God and his purpose? What would this imply about God's power and authority?

Elsewhere

This deity is extremely arrogant and jealous and will not be satisfied until everyone does exactly what it wants. Anyone who does not follow its every instruction is killed.

And people wonder why I describe this deity as being a dictator, no different than Saddam.

tetrapod.sapien

Is this a Biblical view of God and his purpose?

yes, i would say so. it may not be exactly the same as other sects, but in the end, the bible is the bible, and the god in it is small.

What would this imply about God's power and authority?

it would imply that the men who wrote the bible projected their own weaknesses onto to god to justify themselves. like you say, how can an omnimax god behave in such a way? the most likely answer would seem to be that he has been paid a dis-service by the writers.

rick1199

That was one of my reasons for leaving the troof. Their explaination of why God allowed suffering was basically that he had a bruised ego.

stevenyc

I think the idea is that Satan basicly questioned Gods right to demand all his itelligent, free thinking beings to show complete obedience to him, no questions asked.

Satan convinces eve that Gods line of thinking was completly out of order, and henceforth Gods free thinking beings start to rebal.

Satan 'challenge' is that we don't need Gods rule book.

So.. God punishes humans with sin - we die, get ill, blow each other up, which is to vidicate God as being right all along.

Free thinking beings, that don't follow Gods rule book, end up doing pretty bad. And, just to prove it, Gods is about to allow Jesus to perform Genocide on the grandest scale ever.

steve

Balsam

Why would an all powerful God need to be vindicated? No one could successfully challenge such a God as JW believe in. If he is a loving Father, then why does this loving father need to be worshipped? As parents we don't demand worship from our kids. We might demand they be obedient to our requests. Even demand our kids respect (but good luck on getting it unless you've earned it). But why worship? Why would the highest being of all creation need vindication from a bunch of little ole nothing humans as the bible so strongly points out?

I think it is high time that God vindicate himself by proving to us that he even exists and wants communication with us. The bible is baloney made of by men who were trying to explaine their concept of what God is.

I will not worship some God who can't even prove that the bible is his one and only word. There is nothing valid or prove in the words in the bible.

By the way I asked an active JW these very questions, and she had no good answer and changed subjects. I told her I would not give up my God given ability to think and reason to believe in a book that nothing more than men's thoughts on God. Oddly enough she continues to come to my door, thinking to convert me now knowing I'm am an ex-witness.

Balsam

sonnyboy

This deity is extremely arrogant and jealous and will not be satisfied until everyone does exactly what it wants.

I think that God was created by extremely arrogant and jealous men who would not be satisfied until everyone did exactly what they want.

Check_Your_Premises

Whenever the subject comes up, such that it appears God needs something from us (love, devotion, ), I always apply the following analogy, and it usually ends up making sense to me.

Why do I tell my children they need to thank me for things? Do I really need the appreciation of a little child? Of course I would like it, and it brings me joy, but I am a mature adult. Does this appreciation fulfill any need I have? Of course not. So actually the purpose of me requiring my children to say thank you is not for me. It is for them. It is for them to understand the reality of the world, and that all they have didn't just appear. It came from my effort, and when I am gone they will have to be able duplicate my efforts and take care of themselves.

Of course God doesn't need any vindication. It is necessary, only for our sake, that He is vindicated in our minds.

What do you think?

Check_Your_Premises

(Nevawuzza! Everytime I say that I laugh)

tetrapod.sapien

So actually the purpose of me requiring my children to say thank you is not for me. It is for them.

hey CYP,

and if they choose to disobey you anyways? what then? of course, if you extend the illustration, that may be what you tell your kids. however, when they still don't listen to them, you punish them and their offsrping, kill many people for one persons issues, kill women, children and old people. you also corrupt their seeds and spread dung upon their faces. and in the NT? well, god has suddenly become loving....er, except that if his children still disobey him, they get to go to hell for eternity.

"And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.... And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." Numbers 15:32-36

"Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up." Hosea 13:16 "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." ps 137:9 "Behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces." mal 2:3

What is up with God requiring vindication?

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