Televangelist equates "Atheism" and "Hedonism" with Hemingway's suicide

by tetrapod.sapien 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    my dog and i were watching "Church of the Rock" this morning on T.V. My dog goes in for that sort of stuff, so i humor him. He's only 10 weeks old, so i don't really chap his ass too much about it, yet.

    Anyways, the preacher was talking about how christianity is like the "adventure" of a life time. he said adventure is good, but it has to have meaning, or else it means nothing . then, he starts talking about ernest hemingway and how he was a big game hunter in africa and a deep sea fisher in the carribean, and a writer in paris. but that his adventuring had no point to it, because he was an atheist. and because he was an atheist, his adventures were basically hedonistic. he drives his "point" home by finishing the story with: "and then i remembered how hemingway died...(silence from credulous audience)...he put a revolver in his own mouth and blew his brains out. so you see, we can have adventure, but it must have meaning. hemingway was a hedonist, and was a very depressed man"

    So, where is the logic in that analogy? obviously there is none. is he saying that each time we go fishing, or hiking, we should open and close with prayer. LOL. he obviously thinks that the lack of meaning in hemingway's life is what drove him to depression and suicide, although that is not what one would gather just by listening to the analogy. of course, he doesn't say anything about mental instability, but whatever.

    so my question's:

    • does a lack of belief in god imply a lack of morals? does it imply hedonism? does it imply a lack of meaning in life? and if yes, why?
  • EvilForce
    EvilForce

    I've heard so many Witnoids tell me "Well if I was in the world, I'd be screwing girls every night, swearing like a sailor, lying, cheating, and probably stealing to". I always found this incredulous that the only thing keeping these jag bags from being a shite stick was "da troof". And they were serious about this.

    Fundy Christians will always twist, subvert, or change the meanings of things just to tell a story. Adventure without God = BAD. Adventure with God = GOOD. Puleeze!

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    We all know that Christians never get depressed or commit suicide. lol

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien
    I always found this incredulous that the only thing keeping these jag bags from being a shite stick was "da troof".

    and they seem to think that by admitting it so freely, that they are showing what a super fantastic sacrifice they are making for jehovah. in their off hours, they probably are shite sticks.

    We all know that Christians never get depressed or commit suicide. lol

    ya, in this case, classic double talk. it seems like those televangelists can take anything, and turn it into a "reason" to write a cheque at the end of the show.

    regarding meaning and morals: in my case, i have a greater appreciation for life since leaving the org, and becoming an atheist. i remember life as a suicidal JW. i just wanted to leave this disgusting world and go to paradise so badly. i didn't care if i was judged negatively by god for killing myself. now, i treat myself better, and i honestly treat others better. i was not the sort of person that had empathy for others, but now i do. in my case, i have empathy now precisely because i do see us as alone on this earth in an existence that is far from black and white. i am hungry for meaning now. meaning with substance. i have a real desire to try to make the world a better place. i am in awe that i have one opportunity of several decades to enjoy life in this cosmos, and that i am conscious and healthy. and i am not saying that christians cannot experience the same things, but i am saying that non-theists of whatever sort CAN and DO lead rich lives. in my case, even more now. i think there may be a stigma in the popular consciousness here in north america, that non-believers lead shallow hedonistic existences. if searching for meaning while enjoying life is hedonistic, then sign me up!

  • darkuncle29
    darkuncle29
    does a lack of belief in god imply a lack of morals? does it imply hedonism? does it imply a lack of meaning in life? and if yes, why?

    No. I try to be moral because I choose to. I am not blackmailed by guilt or shame by some puppet deity, I am responsible for ME. Hedonism might be fun, but it eventually becomes self defeating. Meaning in my life is again, not derived from a blow-up-God doll. The quality of my relationships--or lack thereof--in part, determine the meaning of my life. For those who feel they have to answer yes, I feel a teeny tiny twinge of sadness for them, in that they feel they have to surrender their personal power over to another being. I don't wallow in that sadness though, because I figure that if they need to think and believe such things, then they probably need to go through the lessons that that can give. Hopefully the rest of us can stay out of their way while they try and figure this out.

  • georgefoster
    georgefoster
    does a lack of belief in god imply a lack of morals?

    I contend that morals for the sake of respect for your fellow man are much more noble than morals for the sake of eternal life in paradise or heaven. I find myself to have a much clearer sense of morals since I left organized religion.

  • Siddhashunyata
    Siddhashunyata

    Always look into the source of such clap trap interpretations. I remember hearing a Circuit Overseer demeaning the heroic act of John Jacob Astor who gave a child his place on the Titanic lifeboat. Astor died in the icy sea! What did the Circuit Overseer get from all that ....."none of his riches were able to save him (Astor)." The Circuit Overseer was so eager to impress that he twisted and maligned a truly noble act. I left the meeting and had to cool off . I never went back. That was my last meeting.

  • seattleniceguy
    seattleniceguy
    does a lack of belief in god imply a lack of morals?



    Absolutely not. Actually, the people that I know who do not believe in God - bar none - are nonbelievers explicitly because they cannot do so in good conscience, because they see no compelling evidence to do so, and to believe something with no evidence is unconscionable to them. As people driven by logic, rationality, and the desire to do what is right, nonbelievers are in my experience among the most honest and ethical people I know.

    does it imply hedonism?

    No. Again, the problem is that believers think that non-belief is a choice. It is not. Do Christian believers choose not to believe in the Islam faith? Or does their lack of belief instead stem from the fact that they do not find the faith compelling? Do they choose not to believe in bigfoot out of malicious or self-serving motives? Or is their disbelief instead born out of the simple fact that they do not find the evidence to be substantive?

    Lack of belief in God implies one thing, and one thing only: that the nonbeliever is not convinced that God exists, any more than he is convinced that the Loch Ness monster exists. Both may exist, I will grant. But I'm not going to positively believe something without positive evidence. There is no hedonism involved here. It is simply an honest statement of view.

    And in actual practice, most people - believers and otherwise - live moderate lifestyles because of the simple fact that there are real consequences to oneself and others for extreme lifestyles. So lack of belief definitely does not imply hedonism, although I will grant that formerly repressed people often do find themselves making up for lost time by a hedonistic lifestyle. But I ask, is that the fault of the lack of belief or the ungrounded repression?

    does it imply a lack of meaning in life? and if yes, why?

    Again, no. Upon close examination, this assertion is just silly. If lack of belief implies lack of meaning in life, the underlying assertion is that belief in Jesus or Allah or (insert faith here) provides the only possible meaning in life, and that therefore lack of such belief would strip one of all meaning.

    I ask, why is it that Christians find meaning in life by their belief in Christ? Is it not because they believe they are doing what is right, following a higher calling? So if I, a non-Christian, find meaning in my life by doing what I believe is right, trying to contribute to a greater good in my own way, how is that any less meaningful? For me, being a Christian would not be meaningful because I do not believe that it is based on true premises. It would be like a Christian trying to find meaning in joining the Brigade of Santa Followers. No matter how hard she tries, the Christian simply cannot believe that Santa really exists, so the religion is meaningless to her.

    A person finds meaning in their life by doing what they feel is true and right, regardless of whether it is for Jesus or Allah or Humanity or Earth, or whatever is near and dear to that person.

    In my opinion, being a good and ethical person and finding meaning in one's life, has nothing to do with belief in God, and everything to do with a strong sense of kindness, justice, compassion, and drive.

    SNG

  • Siddhashunyata
    Siddhashunyata

    "In my opinion, being a good and ethical person and finding meaning in one's life, has nothing to do with belief in God, and everything to do with a strong sense of kindness, justice, compassion, and drive. "

    SNG

    Yes! This is why religious "transformation" (strong sense of kindness, justice, compassion) triumphs over religious "imitation" ( strong sense of being right according to the "rules"). Religious transformation in its broadest sense, may not include a belief system of any kind.

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    My biggest question is what determines what a person feels inside his being. Is it part of being human from his DNA? Is it developed from his association from youth? Is it a trained response to feel compassion for other humans? Why are some people so damn wicked and can kill millions of people without any regrets? Religion can be a good or bad influence, depending on the leadership at any given time, but it seems mostly bad.

    Throughout history people have been led to follow some leader and start wars and then peaceful people have to respond by fighting back. If there is a GOD as described in the bible he sure messed up humanity to the point they can't live in peace very long. All of nature is just one big fight for survival and at my age I'm tired of fighting.

    Ken P.

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