"friend" sends me email about Einstein and God...

by tetrapod.sapien 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    here is the email:

    Thought you might enjoy the logic in this, or maybe not... but i did :)


    Does evil exist? A university professor challenged his students with this
    question. Did God create everything that exists?

    A student bravely replied "Yes, He did!"

    "God created everything?" the professor asked.

    "Yes sir", the student replied.

    The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil
    since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who
    we are, then God is evil."

    The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students
    that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

    Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question
    professor?"

    "Of course", replied the professor.

    The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

    The Professor replied "Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?"

    The students snickered at the young man's question.

    The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the
    laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat.
    Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits
    energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.
    Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat. Cold does not
    exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have not
    heat."

    The student continued. "Professor, does darkness exist?"

    The professor responded, "Of course it does."

    The student relied, "Once again you are wrong sir. Darkness does not exist
    either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but
    not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break light into many
    colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure
    darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and
    illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the
    amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man
    to describe what happens when there is no light present."

    Finally the young man asked the professor. "Sir, does evil exist?"

    Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said.
    We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man.
    It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These
    manifestations are nothing else but evil."

    To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does
    not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like
    darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of
    God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man
    does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes
    when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is not light."

    The professor sat down. The young man's name was --- Albert Einstein

    this is my reply (what else would you have said? it really gets my goat that people write stuff like this.):

    thanks. i like dissecting stuff like this.
    first, some possible history of the anecdote:

    http://www.snopes.com/religion /Einstein.asp

    second, i am highly incredulous/skeptical that einstein EVER said anything like this:

    Evil is the result of what happens when man
    does not have God's love present in his heart.


    this sounds so much like what a "christian" who is making this up, would say. Einstein was raised a jew, and later became a pantheist, after his spiritual idol Baruch Spinoza, the father of modern pantheism, and an excommunicated jew. when i was first leaving the truth, i read some of Spinoza's treatise on nature and divinity, and thought that of all religious ideas, the idea that nature is god, is the most realistic. Einstein was also a scientist. the first part of the anecdote sounds much like a scientist talking, with his careful adherence to definitions etc. but the last paragraph gives away the source of the anecdote. Einstein starts talking with an implied assertion that god exists, and that god has "love" that is resident in peoples "heart". figurative or not, Einstein would never have been so careless in his use of logic. the whole anecdote was going nicely until the non sequitur at the end.

    third. i would like to reply to this statement by the writer of the anecdote:
    Evil is simply the absence of God.

    how does that follow? this implies that there is no alternative. how about: evil is a human's interpretation of nature. and nature is not good or evil, just indifferent. we just interpret indifference as evil because we are in the habit of projecting consciousness on inanimate objects and forces of nature.

    buddy, the thing about this statement is that it implies that god exists. of course, this means nothing to an atheist because she would have a lack of belief in god. before you can say something like the quote above and have it make an impact, you first have to prove the existence of god. once you have done that, you can say that evil is simply a lack of god in something.

    i just noticed another incredible loophole in the anecdote that Einstein would have never endorsed. if evil is the absence of god, then the atheist professor was right: god does not exist, since there is evil "everywhere". weird. an atheist professor would never have been silenced by such an argument.

    i would not continue passing this stuff on, if i were you. if you want to be a Christian, then that is cool. i know lots of good christians. but the probability of this being a lie/fabrication is so high, that it truly would be un-christian to pass it on. i hope this helps.

    it would be super interesting to me if you would pass my reply back onto whoever forwarded it to you. i would love to know his or her response to the points i raise. long time no talk. cheers,

  • seattleniceguy
    seattleniceguy

    LOL. That story is so obviously a fabrication it's absurd.

    I love how in Christian stories like this, the young hero always courageously stands up while all his braindead, follower peers snicker at him. I can see the panel in the Chick tract right now. And of course, you never have a real professor, you know a cool, reasonable person like in real life. You have some ultra-arrogant moron. You can almost hear the reader cheering as our young hero roundly trounces the know-nothing prof.

    And of course, fundamentalists just lap it up. Gosh, it's good to be out of that box, ain't it? :-)

    SNG

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist

    I thought it sounded like a Chick tract too!

    You have some ultra-arrogant moron.

    You meeet some interesting professors in university, like the prof. who's working on a doctorate in non-newtonian fluid dynamics and teaching calculus. She has trouble doing simple arithmetic (so do I, I seem to excel at concepts avec la calculatrice). Anyway, my point is, all the professors I know are humble and they know the best how little they know (my greek prof. seems to know everything, he can almost quote greek grammar books and lexicons verbatim).

    What I always find funny is how people point to how many smart people they have on their side to prove how right they are. In this case, Einstein vs. the atheists.

  • zagor
    zagor

    Yeah, sounds kinda like Christian fundamentalist with a brain, not agnostic physics scientist. Especially not Einstein. But I don't know, what is the source of the story? Ask your friend to give you the reference. That what most fundamentalists hate the most. Don’t you get pissed off when you read something in Awake and there's only a name of magazine, no date no page no writer no nothing.

  • iggy_the_fish
    iggy_the_fish

    What a very cross-making e-mail. I also hate the insinuation that without a God we'd all revert to being evil drunken fornicating thieving murderous maniacs. Before I let go of my belief in God, I seriously worried that without such a belief I would have nothing to stop me going about the town on my murderous and lustful rampages. However, all atheism has brought me is more peace and less guilt.

    Alas, I fear we will never hear the end of "Einstein believed, he was smart, ergo God" style arguments.

    Very nice reply tetrapod, loved it.

    ig.

  • cypher50
    cypher50

    Any "friend" that forwards crappy glurge emails like this are automatically taken out of my address book and put on my blocked email list...I have confidence that most the people I know are smart enough not to believe crap like this...

    I like how you used Snopes to own this fool :).

  • DannyBloem
    DannyBloem

    Nice story but wrong on several points.

    first Einstein did believe in a God but not in the judean-christian way. He did not believe in God as a person, more the nature itself.

    It is remarkable to know that one of his greatest mistakes had to do with God. When discussing the quantum theories, he could not believe some if it and had the argument: God does not play dice. It turned out that God did....

    check out also: http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/e/einstein-god.htm

    Danny

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe


    I fail to see how the defense that was made in that excerpt identifies any particular faith group, so why are y'all calling down on us Christians, again? Bigotted b*st*rds!!!

    I also would like to know why it is seemingly impossible for young Einstien to have held radically different views from an older Einstien. Do we not give him credit for the ability to change his opinion, if he so wished?

    Seems poor ole Einstien has posthumously been placed in a very confining box, by those who admire his work but cannot tolerate those things which may (or may not) be at odds with their own flavour of visualisation of how the world is...

    A summary of the above, for those incapable of taking it on the chin, would be - you have a right to your beliefs, and I'll gladly fight for that right, but get a life and stop railing against those who believe differently!

  • googlemagoogle
    googlemagoogle

    funny how christians (well, that's the box you put yourself in, littletoe, that's not our fault ;-)) just like to misquote, misinterpret or even make up stories bout einstein or other scientists...

    if evil would be the abscence of god, then every atheist or unbeliever or someone believing in a "false" god would be evil. everybody knows this is not the case (although the wts tried to make us believe it).

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Google:

    ...just like to misquote, misinterpret or even make up stories bout einstein or other scientists...

    I'm afraid you're going to have to cite examples of where I've done that. It's something that I'm very careful about, and I also try to be very clear where I'm merely presenting my opinion. I wish that some of the pseudo-scientists would have occasion to act similarly

    if evil would be the abscence of god, then every atheist or unbeliever or someone believing in a "false" god would be evil. everybody knows this is not the case (although the wts tried to make us believe it).

    Why? You're starting yout assumption from a false premise. Just because someone has turned their back on us, have we turned our back on them? In my own case my door is always open for an JWs (including family members) who might want to contact me. Have I left them? I leave you to make the connection...

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