LOL, yeah every scientist that has lived on earth has always in every instance been truthful and ethically without spot.You missed my sarcasism.
"friend" sends me email about Einstein and God...
by tetrapod.sapien 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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ellderwho
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googlemagoogle
[iron]really?[/iron]
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RichieRich
I believe Einstein is quoted as saying, "Religion is Bunk".
That says a lot.
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Terry
The problem with these carefully parsed "reasonings" is that they are false analogies from the get-go.
To say something "exists" has to have meaning and meaning follows context and relies upon definitions.
The analogy is, roughly, this:
Heat (i.e. molecular motion) =Good
Cold (i.e.molecular stasis)= Evil.
We can see right away that this is utter nonsense.
The definition for Good and the Definition of Evil relies entirely upon human interpretations while molecular motion (or lack of same) does not.
Secondly, the mind is easily led into a knee-jerk reaction when opposites are implied since we tend to define automatically by extremes (if we aren't careful thinkers.)
For example, The absence of an apple on a table does not automatically SUGGEST the presence of an apple on the table. The table has __nothing__on it. Nothing IS nothing because (drum roll, please) NO THING is on it.)
Non-existence does not suggest existence the same automatic way that the existence of something suggests its own absence.
Back to Good and Evil.
As a practical matter, human behavior is really what we are examining. One human alone somewhere can create an awful situation for themselves by foolish and impractical behavior that leads to self-harm. Put two such humans together and then listen to them describing such interactive folly and you'll get an earful of opinion about evil.
Einstein, although from Jewish heritage, was placed in Catholic school long enough to be turned off by the doctrine and the illogic of assertions about the unseen. He lived in a time which was dominated philosophically by Hegel, Kant, and other mystics. Being manipulated by his parents, school, professors and the ethos of the era into accepting ON AUTHORITY the presence of a fictitious god and an automatic duty to same must have left a very bad taste in Einstein's mouth, indeed.
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seattleniceguy
Hey LT,
Sorry if you took my comments as dispairaging to Christians in general. What I meant was the specific breed that loves to send this kind of email, with some warm and fluffy, play-it-to-the-choir story about God, etc.
Although of course, it is possible that Einstein said these things, the specific construction of this story is so incredibly formulaic that I am positive that someone invented it and dropped Einstein in as a big name to sound impressive. This is kind of the modern version of the stories in the first few chapters of Daniel. Look at Daniel stand up to the big bad Chaldeans! Serving his God! And being right after all! Etc, etc.
Einstein can think anything he wants. I don't particularly care if he believed in God or not. It doesn't hurt my case. He could have been a Bible-thumping born-againer for all I care (it is - admittedly - quite amusing to imagine this). My comments were not intended to put Einstein in a box, but rather to point out that this story reads very, very much like one of the many pieces of "inspirational" email drivel sent by - at least in my experience - Christian fundy-types.
Sorry about any miscommunications.
SNG
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LittleToe
SNG:
No skin lost - s'ok.
To be honest, if the average person who goes to a Christian church is anything like the types I met in Seattle, then I can completely understand why it leaves a bitter taste in peoples' mouths.Richie:
I agree, it does say a lot. But if I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times - there's a gulf of difference between "religion" and spirituality. -
tetrapod.sapien
wow! this thread really took off!
SNG,
Gosh, it's good to be out of that box, ain't it? :-)
yes, life is worth living now.
Einstein can think anything he wants. I don't particularly care if he believed in God or not. It doesn't hurt my case.
that's exactly it! it doesn't matter who is on your side in a debate. it's the argument that counts.
zagor,
But I don't know, what is the source of the story?
it's at the top of my reply.
iggy,
However, all atheism has brought me is more peace and less guilt
totally. same here. obviously it's not for everybody. but in a circumstantial sort of sense, my life has gotten much better since i shed belief in the supernatural.
danny,
It is remarkable to know that one of his greatest mistakes had to do with God. When discussing the quantum theories, he could not believe some if it and had the argument: God does not play dice. It turned out that God did....
from what i understand, he became a pantheist after Spinoza. which is cool IMO. i worship nature to a certain extent with the awe i feel over it. unfortunately, einsten never defined what he meant by god to many people, and as a result we have all this confusion over his beliefs today.
LT,
Seems poor ole Einstien has posthumously been placed in a very confining box, by those who admire his work but cannot tolerate those things which may (or may not) be at odds with their own flavour of visualisation of how the world is...
yes, agreed. he was much more open minded than that email painted him. but those who "cannot tolerate", are the ones who felt the need to make up this retarded story. as you said, "poor debate point", or something like that. and yes, it could have been a jew or a muslim that made the story up too. as a matter of fact, i know that einsten's pantheism was a very touchy point with several prominent rabbi's of the time.
there's a gulf of difference between "religion" and spirituality.
no doubt. i would call it progress that so many people today are willing to discard organized religion in favor of personal spirituality.
google,
if evil would be the abscence of god, then every atheist or unbeliever or someone believing in a "false" god would be evil.
or, conversly, as i noted: according to this flawed logic, it could be said that god does not exist since evil is everywhere.
elderwho,
LOL, yeah every scientist that has lived on earth has always in every instance been truthful and ethically without spot.
you're right. not every single scientist has been honest. there are examples of scientific hoaxes. but you won't find materialists and reductionists getting very worked up about it for two reasons:
- science is self correcting.
- science is not a religion, and revels in being wrong as this leads to new knowledge.
plus, it should be noted that science has a much better track record than religion regarding honesty.
LT, this quote of dawkin's:
"Most of us have had our lives saved my medical science, probably more than once, and I am all for it," he said in the interview. "As an academic scientist I am a passionate Darwinian, in the sense that I believe Darwinian natural selection is the explanation for all life. But as a citizen I am an anti-Darwinian! I do not want to see the ruthless callousness of natural selection taking its toll of human life and happiness."
is one of the reasons i admire him as a scientist. it is so true. we have an obligation to fight natural selection as it is cold and blind. indifferent. we know that natural selection is a fact of evolution, but there is also such a thing as humanity. after all, it was natural selection that gave us this capability to empathize with disabled or sick persons. so dawkins is right. and science is actively battling natural selection in humans so that we may live longer and fuller lives. this, i would argue, is the single greatest gift we have ever given ourselves as a species. it rivals the original fire.
spook,
Heat:Cold
Does not eqaul
Light: Darkness
Does not equal
Good:Evil
yes, through and through non sequitur.
terry,
Einstein, although from Jewish heritage, was placed in Catholic school long enough to be turned off by the doctrine and the illogic of assertions about the unseen. He lived in a time which was dominated philosophically by Hegel, Kant, and other mystics. Being manipulated by his parents, school, professors and the ethos of the era into accepting ON AUTHORITY the presence of a fictitious god and an automatic duty to same must have left a very bad taste in Einstein's mouth, indeed.
yes, i was aware of this too. it is what sent a red flag up in my mind when i got to the end of the anecdote. after all, isn't he famous for saying: "question everything" ? i admire einstein for remaining true to himself. it didn't matter if he was talking with a priest or an atheist, he was always true to himself. it would have been nice if he had spent some more time defining what he meant by "god", but whatever, he spent his energy () giving back to humanity what he was best at: physical knowledge. -
VM44
Whoever fabricated that story and signed Einstein's name to it, respects neither Truth, nor the person Einstein.
It makes one wonder why someone would lie in order to support the idea of God.
Will you bring unfair arguments for God? Will you tell lies on his behalf? Will you be sycophants of the Almighty? Will you be special pleaders for God?, Job 13:7 [James Moffatt translation]
--VM44