After 30 years my mother now has doubts!!

by diamondblue1974 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • diamondblue1974
    diamondblue1974

    I have just finished an incredibly long conversation with my mother which was tense in parts and hard going but I feel as though I have made a break-through; I was incredibly delicate in my approach given her 30 years inside the Borg but again I think I have made some headway.

    We covered the UN scandal and I asked whether she had heard anything about the WTS affiliation with the UN as an NGO; she surprisingly had heard nothing about it; I read the Guardian articles to her and she was silent....I half expected to hear her hang up the phone but she continued to stay on. She tried to justify it initially but slowly I allowed her to reach her own conclusions and she has agreed to let me send the information upto her; i.e the Guardian Newspaper Articles and the NGO press release.

    We covered the Child Abuse policies and lack off protection for children and covered the highly legalistic approach taken in the very little policy they have...which is mainly about self preservation. I asked her whether she knew that the society in the US are being sued by a number of different people for the organisations failure to protect children from abuse and I asked if I could get the proof without using 'apostate' sources, i.e primary sources such as court judgements etc, would she accept the information? She agreed!

    I explained that whilst I have been silent before, these issues primarily including the failed predictions have caused me to 'fall away'. I also explained that whilst this is the case I have no intentions of trying to get her to do the same but felt it was only right that she know my reasons and why I could not in all conscience go back to the meetings seeing what I do right now.

    I said that I was going to write to the WTS for clarification with some quite pointed questions about various issues in a non confrontational manner in order to get answers and whether she would support my efforts; she said she would as there is no harm in asking questions. I also asked her what her feelings would be if I was disfellowshipped for asking these genuine and non confrontational questions, again she expressed disbelief that this would be the case but I pushed her for an answer, she said she would stand by me if I wasnt seeking to cause trouble. I said that I was scared of a rift being caused between us because of the awkward questions I will be asking and that she might be asked to shun me as a result, I asked her what she felt about that.

    She again confirmed that she would only shun me if I was looking to cause trouble withe society; I asked her whether she thought I was causing trouble by all I planned to ask about; she said that it didnt seem that way and that again there was nothing wrong with questions and I should be encouraged to ask them if I was not sure about issues.

    I asked whether she thought I might be accused of apostasy (playing dumb) and she said if I was speaking against the organisation then yes I would, given this I asked her what she believed an apostate was? She reiterated that apostasy was speaking out against the society and that it was the same as speaking against God; I asked her again whether there was a scripture that could back that view up; she couldnt think of one; I pointed to Isa 32:6 and pointed out that apostasy was speaking against Jehovah and only Jehovah, I asked her whether she thought I had spoken out against Jehovah personally, she accepted I hadnt and that I was not an apostate in the scriptural sense; I asked her whether she thought it would be right to disfellowship me on the basis of my questions; again she could not see any reason why I should.

    The conversation lasted about two hours and some of it was less than pleasant but overall I think I have made some headway; at least I have headed off any instructions to shun me prior to them taking place and some seeds of doubt have been planted; she was majorly concerned with the UN saga and couldnt understand why they would want an affiliation with the UN, I pointed out that there is a vast difference between affiliations and on the other hand the society making representations to the UN. She also couldnt understand why they would agree to their charter....and agree to their terms.

    I think there is a long way to go...and slowly slowly catchee monkey (no reference to KLS) but the groundwork has been done...just have to be careful about how I play it from here...what do you think?

    Can anyone shed any non apostate information which I could rely upon which will back up all that is wrong with the society?

    DB74

  • kls
    kls
    I think there is a long way to go...and slowly slowly catchee monkey (no reference to KLS)

    Hee hee and i was so worried

    Keep at her cause it does sound like your questions and proof answers are making a dent in her mind and even a small dent in the cult mind is a big step. Good luck

  • mapleaf18
    mapleaf18

    congrats on your success; baby steps are progress too! i wish i could get to my mother but she is totally under the thumb of my super-dub dad. they are in their 70's now and recognizing their own mortality it seems; i have yet to tell them about my DA yet. my mom has always had mental health issues (probably 90% JW guilt driven) so i don't want to make it any worse. i figure if they are such major players in da troof, surely the jw grapevine will get to them 500+ miles away. . .

    as i had stated in previous posts, they refuse to get the internet because of possible "apostate" info jumping out at them like the bogie man. that means no emails or IMing from me or grandkids, 2.

  • Swan
    Swan

    I don't know which Awake! issues are favorable to the UN since they were published after I left the JWs, but you may want to direct her to those articles as examples of favorable reports in accordance with the NGO agreement. You could even contrast them with previous writings denouncing the UN, if you think that will help.

    Good luck!

    Tammy

  • Ellie
    Ellie

    Thats really great, I'm glad your conversation was a success, lets just hope she thinks about what you've said and takes notice.

    It must be the solicitor in you, giving you the gift of the gab because thats quite remarkable actually, well done!

  • TheListener
    TheListener

    sounds like an exhausting conversation. It also sounds like it went as well as could be expected.

    Good luck.

    One word of caution though. She may feel that you aren't apostatizing or causing the society trouble, now. But, after the elder body explain to her why she's mistaken, and how she needs to support Jehovah's organization or there will be no chance of saving you she may (I only say may) change her mind. they can bring a lot of pressure to bear.

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    In these parts the only question is . . . Do you want to be a Witness or not? They don't even deny the Society has been wrong in the past. It doesn't matter. My relatives WANT TO BE WITNESSES. They know the group's history is loaded down with error and compromise. Some have even read Crisis Of Conscience and stayed associated with the Witness group.

    I'm convinced that if they want to stay Witnesses, nothing matters. I'm also convinced that once a Witnesses's trust in the Society is broken or once they suffer a radicle social setback, they're on their way out. I think most of us had a loss of trust or a social setback during our Witness time and we fought ourselves so we could stay. I know I did.

    My social setback came right after the death of my wife and on top of the 1975 failure. I was trying to deal with the 1975 failure while grieving the loss of my wife and friend, while being snubbed by the local Witness people socially . . . and then I was belly pushed at an assembly by Witness people, and on top of all that I was harshly reprimanded for not wearing a neck tie to a group meeting. I kicked the Kingdom Hall door on the way out.

    My Witness relatives have been mean to me and rude to my family. I don't like them and I hope they stay Witnesses.

  • Blueblades
    Blueblades

    Try the QUOTES SITE, it has words right out of the Governing Body's own mouth. She won't be able to deny what is written by the Society.

    Blueblades

  • sf
    sf

    Gary,

    I don't like them and I hope they stay Witnesses.

    Come to think of it....YEA! Just stay a witness mom. It sure does become you.

    So be it.

    sKally

  • Netty
    Netty

    My God, that is wonderful. It gives me hope, my parents have been in 35 years, and I kinda thought there was no hope. Good for you, I am very happy for you!

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