Welcome 5th G What I can tell you from my own experience is to take easy at the begining of this road. The emotional turmoil is huge so wait some time until taking important decisions.
First Post
by 5thGeneration 75 Replies latest jw friends
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Netty
Hi 5th. Thank you so much for posting your 13 reasons why you are now doubting. Every, and I mean every single one of them rang true for me. Great that you were able to write it out. And, r u kidding? The society is now saying you cant have a vasectomy? What in the world? I didn't know about this one. This is just so so wrong. I also have a few auto-immune diseases, and this is why we opted for my hubby having the vasectomy, better not put my bod through another pregnancy. I know that whole issue, and can relate to you and your wife too.
You wrote about a few that are having doubts and having to secretly, write the society. Doesn't that tell you something. A religion, where you have to fear being discovered, and suffering the consequences, just for asking a question. Disfellowhipping, shunning. That is not love, 5th, that is not love.
I hope you will stick around, read up, alot on this board. We are all just people, just like you, who have been through some of the same things you are now going through. I hope you can find comfort and support here, I know you will.
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Sirona
5th I think you're doing great!
Basically you are saying that whilst you have a fundamental belief in Jehovah and Jesus, you have lots of problems with what the WTBTS has done.
That is a great start IMHO. You are starting to realize that maybe God will accept you even if you don't attend the building they call the "kingdom hall".
Try reading your bible without the JW glasses on. Explore what your real beliefs are.
Sirona
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mad max
Hi 5th, also new here still. But not new to Jah. My LOVE for him and Jesus is soooooooo overwelming because, NOW, I know, I fall under His Grace.
I do not live under guilt and you cannot as well, because He loves you and your family that Jesus died for you. Wow.
Had my tubes tied. So what!
The only thing that Jah God is interested in, is, do you accept His Son as YOUR saviour. Yes! then do not worry about displeasing him, because you do not.
Talking to you direct from the Spirit.
Take care. I will pray for you. That is not just a Christian saying. I MEAN IT.
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jgnat
By the way, fifth, there are no limits to how many comments you can make on your own thread. This is not the Kingdom Hall!
It seems you have worked out a lot already. From your comments it seems you have realized that leaving the organization is not anything the same as leaving Jehovah. I won't join the society, but I am secure in my faith in God. Yet my JW husband calls me an "unbeliever". I cannot tell you how insulting that is, as I gave my life to God over 20 years ago, and have been steadier and more faithful than my JW hubby has ever been. I believe the closet unfaithfulness of JW's is systemic. All the rules and behaviour are external, and externally controlled. I don't see how consciences can be exercised or built up if JW's constantly AVOID rather than WADE THROUGH the "world".
So I can say with confidence it is possible to leave the organization and retain your faith in God.
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jgnat
Oops. Pushed "enter" too soon.
That all being said, I still do believe in Jehovah and Christ Jesus pretty well as they are depicted by the Society. Hence my anguish. I also believe that I will see all my dead family previously mentioned IN PARADISE on EARTH.
Why not? Keep your personal beliefs. Grow strong and independent. Spend some time in PERSONAL bible study, and figure out what is important to you. Want to bring your family with you? That has been done, too. There are examples on this board.
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clementine
welcome 5thgeneration!! i've never been in the same situtation as you, as i've never been JW. but i can say to you, is that it is ALWAYS a good things to doubt. the dubs i know don't doubt, they just go on, without asking questions about what they believe, or how they act, and i really would like them to have your doubts a day... don't feel guilty about this please, this is simply human... take care
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tijkmo
From Readers
QuestionsSince
sterilization procedures are now said to be reversible on request, might a Christian view them as a birth-control option?Sterilization has become the most widely used means of family planning. For many people, its acceptability seems determined by social and educational background, as well as by religious views. The aspect of religious belief comes into play with Jehovah’s Witnesses, who share the psalmist’s desire: "Instruct me, O Jehovah, in your way, and lead me in the path of uprightness." (Psalm 27:11) What is involved in sterilization procedures?
Male sterilization for birth control is called a vasectomy. Two small sperm cords, or tubes, in the scrotum are cut and blocked. This can be done in various medical ways, but the intent is to make it impossible for sperm to pass from the testicles. Female sterilization is called tubal ligation. It is usually done by cutting and tying (or, burning) closed the Fallopian tubes, which carry eggs from the ovaries to the uterus.
It was long considered that these steps were permanent—that they produced irreversible sterilization. But some people, because of regretting their step or as a result of new circumstances, have sought medical help to undo a vasectomy or tubal ligation. With the advent of specialized instruments and microsurgery, attempts at reversal have been more successful. It is not uncommon to read that with selected candidates there can be 50 to 70 percent success in reversing a vasectomy by rejoining the severed ends of the tiny tubes. Rates of 60 to 80 percent success for reversing female tubal ligation are claimed. Some who have learned about this have felt that sterilization need no longer be viewed as permanent. They might believe that a vasectomy and tubal ligation can be viewed as being in the same category as oral contraceptives, condoms, and diaphragms—methods that can be discontinued if a pregnancy is desired. Yet, some sobering aspects should not be ignored.
One is that prospects for a reversal can be hurt dramatically by such factors as the amount of damage to tubes during the sterilization procedure, the amount of the tube removed or scarred, the number of years that have passed since the procedure, and in the case of a vasectomy, whether antibodies against the man’s sperm have resulted. And not to be ignored is the fact that facilities for microsurgery may not be available in many areas, or the expense may be prohibitive. Thus, many who might desperately wish to have a sterilization reversed would not be able to. For them it is final. So the above-noted rates for reversals are really just theoretical, not dependable averages.
Some facts bear on the realities. An article published in the United States on reversing a vasectomy commented that after the $12,000 operation, "only 63 percent of patients can impregnate their partners." Moreover, just "six percent of men who get a vasectomy eventually seek a reversal." In a German study about central Europe, some 3 percent of men who chose to be sterilized later sought reversal. Even if half of those attempts could succeed, it would mean that for 98.5 percent, having a vasectomy amounted to permanent sterilization. And the rate would be higher in lands with few or no microsurgeons.
Consequently, it is unrealistic to treat male or female sterilization lightly, as if it were temporary birth control. And for the sincere Christian, there are other aspects to consider.
A central point is that reproductive powers are a gift from our Creator. His original purpose included procreation by perfect humans, who would "fill the earth and subdue it." (Genesis 1:28) After the Flood cut earth’s population to eight, God repeated those basic instructions. (Genesis 9:1) God did not repeat that command to the nation of Israel, but Israelites viewed having offspring as something very desirable.—1 Samuel 1:1-11; Psalm 128:3.
God’s Law to Israel contained indications of his regard for human procreation. For example, if a married man died before producing a son to carry on his lineage, his brother was to father a son by brother-in-law marriage. (Deuteronomy 25:5) More to the point was the law about a wife who tried to help her husband in a fight. If she grasped the privates of her husband’s opponent, her hand was to be amputated; significantly, God did not require eye-for-eye damage to her or her husband’s reproductive organs. (Deuteronomy 25:11, 12) This law would clearly engender respect for reproductive organs; these were not to be destroyed needlessly.
We know that Christians are not under Israel’s Law, so the regulation at Deuteronomy 25:11, 12 is not binding on them. Jesus neither ordered nor implied that his disciples must marry and have as many children as possible, which many couples have considered when deciding on whether to use some method of birth control. (Matthew 19:10-12) The apostle Paul did encourage passionate ‘younger widows to marry and bear children.’ (1 Timothy 5:11-14) He did not bring up the permanent sterilization of Christians—their voluntarily sacrificing their reproductive potential to bear children.
Christians do well to weigh such indications that God esteems their reproductive ability. Each couple must determine if and when they will employ appropriate methods of family planning. Granted, their decision would be particularly telling if there were confirmed medical assurances that mother or child faced grave medical risks, even a probability of death, with a future pregnancy. Some in that situation have reluctantly submitted to a sterilization procedure as described earlier to make sure that no pregnancy would threaten the life of the mother (who may already have other children) or that of a child who might later be born with a life-threatening health problem.
But Christians who are not facing such an unusual and distinct risk would certainly want to use ‘soundness of mind’ and shape their thinking and deeds by God’s esteem for reproductive potential. (1 Timothy 3:2; Titus 1:8; 2:2, 5-8) This would reflect mature sensitivity to Scriptural indications. Yet, what if it became publicly known that a Christian blithely disregarded God’s evaluations? Would not others doubt whether he (or, she) was a good example, having a reputation of making decisions in harmony with the Bible? Such a disturbing blemish on one’s reputation could, of course, affect a minister’s being qualified for special privileges of service, though that might not be so if one had in ignorance had this procedure performed.—1 Timothy 3:7.
[Footnotes]
"Surgical attempts to reconnect the [vas deferens] have a success rate of at least 40 percent, and there is some evidence that greater success may be achieved with improved microsurgical techniques. Nevertheless, sterilization by means of vasectomy should be considered permanent." (Encyclopædia Britannica) "Sterilization should be regarded as a permanent procedure. Despite what the patient may have heard about reversal, reanastomosis is expensive, and success cannot be guaranteed. For women who undergo reversal of tubal sterilization, the risk of ectopic pregnancy is high."—Contemporary OB/GYN, June 1998.
Another law that might seem relevant said that no man whose genitals were severely damaged could come into God’s congregation. (Deuteronomy 23:1) However, Insight on the Scriptures notes that this evidently "had to do with deliberate emasculation for immoral purposes, such as homosexuality." Hence, that law did not involve castration or the equivalent for birth control. Insight also says: "Jehovah comfortingly foretold the time when eunuchs would be accepted by him as his servants and, if obedient, would have a name better than sons and daughters. With the abolition of the Law by Jesus Christ, all persons exercising faith, regardless of their former status or condition, could become spiritual sons of God. Fleshly distinctions were removed.—Isa 56:4, 5; Joh 1:12."
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TheListener
Hi 5th. Good to have you hear. Wow, you sure have a lot of support here very quickly. This is a great place where people come to cry, laugh, gossip and hang out. We help each other in times of need and we kick each others' butts (verbally) when necessary as well. Much like any normal slightly dysfunctional family. :)
I've been where you are. In fact it wasn't that long ago. I would wake up almost every night and feel the guilt and pressure for not believing the way I should. When a crashing storm would blow in I would be certain that armageddon was starting and that my judgment and death were imminent. I would sometimes dream that I was found unworthy and sentenced to eternal death. I was certain that the society had so many things right that I was just being too critical. Even with that I couldn't let go of what I was being critical of.
For me the two biggest issues were blood and 607. I researched and read as much as I possibly could on those two subjects. Then I made the best decision of my life: I secretly bought Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz. I devoured that book. The book didn't make me want to hate Jehovah or turn my back on Jehovah; no, it made me appreciate how wonderfully put together the bible is and how important Jehovah can be in our lives. But, the book also clearly showed me how far off the mark the society is on a wide variety of subjects.
I no longer wake up waiting to die at Jehovah's hand. In fact I feel better about my relationship with Jehovah than I ever did. I have a personal relationship not based on someone else telling me what to do or not do on every little subject.
Good luck in your search
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TheListener
tijkmo, what was the date of that QFR?