tijkmos letter to gb (page 2)

Not knowing ALL the circumstances I caveat this reply with the note that this in not a definitive judgement on this matter and that I have no position to make such but feel the need to make some points.

As a JW Elder you had a position of responsibility and responsibility to your wife (and children ?? relatives)

You chose to run off with a young girl (who you only knew because of her faith) and engage in immorality and seem amazed that a JC should disfellowship YOU as everything should be OK as you were "sorry" (what for ? - ) I have more than most peoples hate for the WTS but cant see how in this matter they did not do what anyone associated would expect - I sat on a JC years ago which disfellowshipped a person for paedophile acts - his response when told the decision was to demand to know why HE was being disfellowshipped as HE was sorry and that was all right - yes disfellowshipping is not for any names offense but for 1 of 2 thing - lack of true repentance (works that befit repentance) and or to protect the congregation.

Elders cannot judge repentance (how could they?) so in your case I would (if still associated) be appalled if they had not disfellowshipped you as the old old chestnut of being sorry does not wash - how many broken mariages and wives/husbands have been destroyed by a conniving partner who was then "sorry" - but in time seemed to get their own way and a new (younger) partner ?

I make these comments not to cause hurt but to make a point that self righteouseness and hypocrisy hurt others as well - I see no comment in your post re the hurt done to others - the consequences of your actions were well known to you - you chose your course and it would be proper to accept your responsibility for the outcome - yes - some (most) elders are insensitive and uncaring but in the situation as I understand it here you put your own head on the block knowing the outcome.

Sirona

Core,

I don't agree AT ALL with what you said.

What he did is nothing at all like a pedo. To DF a pedo would be right, because despite repentance they are likely to do the same thing again (mental condition).

What Tij did was have sex with a consenting adult aged 20+ so it is NOT the same. I can't believe you even used that example.

So he stopped the relationship and was sorry, and you think he should have been DF'd anyway? He was prepared to go back to his wife and try and sort it out. He would have still suffered a reproof. They could maybe have saved their marriage (maybe!).

It was nothing to do with repentance or protecting the cong. Those elders just wanted him out!

Sirona

love2Bworldly

All I can say is that I'm glad I'm out and have learned how evil the BS Society really is. Jesus would never ever have treated people the way the JWs do, and they claim he is their model to follow.

scotsman

Core

This isn't the story of tij, he posted that when he first arrived on this site. You should go back and read it before you start making judgements. This post is about his letter to the GB. An adulterous elder is not automatically dfed, which you should know having been an elder. Four years ago the Presiding Overseer of the congregation I was in had a brief affair with the Service Overseer's pioneer wife and neither of them were dfed, but reproved.

tij's downfall was possibly because he was a popular, slightly maverick elder (yes, I know him), hence the quick chop.

fleaman uk

Core

You sound like you understand the procedures of Judicial action etc?

Isnt it true a Man is only judged by his repentance?NOT the wrongdoing.

Clearly Tijkmo was repentant.(Read his account)

AK - Jeff

Really, does it ever come down to 'repentance' or not in the WTBTS approach? I think we have learned over decades of experience that remorse is not really at key here.

What is appalling to me is not the immorality, or even the disfellowshipping. We are all human after all. Some will let carnal drives overpower them at times. Some of those who feel they are 'appointed' by God to judge such matters will make serious, even destructive decisions. That is all human frailty.

Please do not get me wrong, here. I think the DF'ing arrangement is far off the mark set when Paul wrote the verses that are misapplied to make this a legalistic matter within the confines of the religion. But what is really wrong here was alluded to early in t's letter, when he stated that it took just a few minutes to make the decision to DF him. What is really missing is the entire spirit of Christian love at all in most of these hearings and JC meetings. Inquiries turn into inquisitions. Readjustment is rarely if ever considered. Remorsefulness is completely ignored in favor of 'keeping the congregation clean' - which it does not do anyway.

Unfortunate is the fact that this method of discipline is not only unscriptural in the context Paul places it, but it's implications are more damaging than the wrongdoing for which it is needed. In this case, at the outset, had T been shown kindness, love, consideration, had any effort been made to 'restore such a man in a spirit of mildness', the outcome may have been entirely different. A marriage may have been saved, two people may have been 'restored' to the 'truth', gossip and lies would have not been told and promulgated by those who should be taking the lead, reputations would have been secured, privacy maintained, and dignity would have been the emulating quality as one Christian worked to sharpen the face of another in love.

What is clearly missing is the love of the Christ. In short, Christianity is run amok when men contrive to legislate righteousness through legal means. "LOVE COVERS A MULTITUDE OF SINS".

Jeff

Netty

Thank you for posting this for us to read IP-SEC. Sorry about all this Tij, sounds just awful. Makes me so mad, the emotional turmoil that these ridiculous rules and regulations put on innocent people. I am so glad for you that you have found the support you need here. And great that your sister continued to support you and make a difference for you. Sometimes all it takes is the compassion of one person to help you through a crisis. (((Tij)))

tijkmo

core..you are absolutely right of course

you dont know all the details

you dont know all the lead up to what happened ..you dont know all the efforts i made to rectify things and you dont know what my heart condition was at the jc

how could you...you werent there

and as you said how could they...well by listening for one thing...by applying biblical and organizational thinking for another...they did none of this

but i didnt say i was sorry at my jc...i was sorry and more than that i was repentant but i never said those words...i was ill at my jc..i was insane...i didnt know what i was doing or saying...but i was prepared to take whatever punishment, including disfellowshipping,they thought applicable for all the reasons you mentioned because i truly believed that it would be spirit directed

the only person that truly knew everything that had gone on and all the feelings and sorrows and hurt involved...was...(my belief at the time)...jehovah...and he did nothing

this letter was written after i had been eventually re-instated...after i had tried to fix things with my wife and with the intention of finding a better arrangement for dealing with things like these because it could all have worked out so differently...but in order to set the scene for the suggestions that followed i had to relate the account and to do this as factually as possible

doom....interesting point about the letter format...this is not the letter i sent to the jc...when i moved congregations and reapplied for reinstatement one of the local elders helped me to format a letter which was really kind of him because by this point i didnt know what the jc was looking for and it was clear that it didnt matter what i did it would be unacceptable...recently i found out from another source that i had supposedly submitted 11 letters in 6/7 months for reinstatement one of which was on the back of a shopping receipt and others that were unsigned...clearly if this was true then it would show that i was demonstrating a lack of respect for the df-ing arrangement and even contempt for the jc...i had no intention of doing this..(altho i have nothing but contempt for them and the arrangement now)..i only submitted 4 letters...2 were to different congregations..all were to the point, properly addressed and signed..the last one i had to send through the postal system addressed to MR tony boyland...these other correspondents did not come from me but i cant think of anyone who would send other requests on my behalf especially as they would have no guarantee that they would have the effect they did..they could just as easily have had the opposite effect..so where they came from or whether they existed at all god only knows and he doesnt care and i dont anymore either

thanks to everyone for your support..i still shake when i think about this

OldSoul

core: Elders cannot judge repentance (how could they?) so in your case I would (if still associated) be appalled if they had not disfellowshipped you as the old old chestnut of being sorry does not wash - how many broken mariages and wives/husbands have been destroyed by a conniving partner who was then "sorry" - but in time seemed to get their own way and a new (younger) partner ?

You are correct that elders cannot judge repentance. However, they are instructed to do just that.

od p. 152, par. 2
ANNOUNCEMENT OF REPROOFIf a judicial committee determines that an individual is repentant but that the matter is likely to become known in the congregation or in the community...

While you are correct that they are incapable of the task they are charged with, they are expected to carry out this impossible task nonetheless.

It isn't called a Punishment Committee. It is called a Judicial Committee, meaning a committee that judges. In the case of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Judicial Committees are charged primarily with determining repentance. And the injury done to those they judge remains. As does their guilt for that injury and the guilt which belongs to those who instructed that the injury be done.Respectfully,
OldSoul

tijkmos letter to gb

Doom

core

Sirona

love2Bworldly

scotsman

fleaman uk

AK - Jeff

Netty

tijkmo

OldSoul

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