by hiccup 32 Replies latest jw experiences
Please, to understand what's going on read the book Combatting Cult Mind Control right away: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0892813113/qid=1119535947/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/104-4784482-4671151?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
I promise you, it will describe everything you're seeing in your father and will help you understand how to go about approaching him. If you plunge ahead and oppose his involvement in "your own way", you will drive him further into it.
hiccup,
There is not much more I can add that hasn't already been said.
I was raised as a JW and left (physically anyway) as soon as I turned 18. I was in the top 1/4 of my high school class academically. But because the Society discouraged higher education, my parents did not encourage me to look at colleges and because I was still psychologically and emotionally held in check by the religion, I did not pursue it on my own either.
Because they believe that "the end of this system of things" will come "like a thief in the night", any investment in this life is considered mostly a waste. One is really expected to spend only enough time and attention on secular work to get by, spending the rest (ideally the majority) of one's time in the service.
Here is, I think, the core contradiction:
Matt. 19:24 "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (NIV)
Luke 17:20-21 "Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you." (NIV)
I think the first might be an exaggeration. After all, wasn't Job given many riches? And wasn't King Solomon, besides supposedly the wisest man on earth (and a magician as well), also filthy stinking rich due to God's blessings. (Having asked God for wisdom rather than material wealth, God gave him both.)
I suppose they had both already passed the camel litmus test.
If your father has become seriously involved with the JWs, there is not really much you can do at the time. Anything you say that challenges the religion will brand you as pawn, however innocently, of Satan. It often takes many, many years for the veil to fall from before a JWs eyes. And often, even then, so entrenched will they be that they will stick with it rather than lose connection with so many loved ones.
I went through many, many years of emotional and psychological turmoil after I left. There are still today, nearly fifteen years later, remnants of the teachings lingering around in the most unexpected places.
I'm sorry to have to say this. And it's tough medicine. But if he's already this entrenched, be prepared to lose touch with him. Not that you shouldn't try though.
Have a heartfelt talk with him. Explain that you're not trying to turn him from the religion. But explain that if "the end" is to come, no one knows when it will. And it does more harm than good to cause life in this world to be so difficult. Greed is one thing, but there is nothing wrong with providing yourself and your family a comfortable life. There must be a balance.
Sincerely good luck hiccup.
Once he's broke...they own him.
Where else will he have to go...
Like many he'll just stick it out and wait on J to bring the Big A... and save them all from this wicked world.
u/d (of the been there done that class)
Info about JWs and what it's really like to be a member: www.jwinfo.50megs.com
Info about high control groups: www.factnet.org
Hi Hiccup, When i first began to study with the witnesses. The things i was learning put me on a high. I felt like a window had opened up in my life and saw things in a completely different way.
One of the things that changed for me was my outlook on material possessions and my view of money. Originally from Ireland i moved to London . I had my own flat and a fairly well paid job. That was the only thing that was keeping me there at the time. But once my studies began, all that changed. I no longer felt "materialistic", didnt feel i had to be living and working in london etc. So i decided to move back to Ireland and "yes" i became a window cleaner.
The reason for this was a lot of other witnesses were doing similiar work and it freed them up to go out on into the "field ministry".This of course impressed me and i was of course so zealous ( on an emotional high) at the time that i decided to do the same.
Your father is probably following a similiar pattern. I could be wrong of course , but it might be a factor. He might be on a high at the moment because of his studies and is perhaps impressed with others at the KH and simply following their example.
Also the fact that emphasis in their teaching puts the kingdom first and material things second.
I hope this helps. But please tread carefully as others have mentioned on this tread. As your father will view it that satan is trying to use members of his own household to put him off the"truth".
I hope things work out for you. But no matter what happens in the future, he will always be your father and will always love you and your sister.That i can assure you will never change.
Hi Hiccup,
The WatchTower Bible and Tract Society and its business holdings, including the Christian Congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses freely admit they bring a different Gospel to people than Jesus and the early Christians.
They are what is known in cult research circles as a High Control Group due to the immense power they hold over their followers. They also promote loathing and hatred of anyone who is not a JW. When they snare an unsuspecting victim they inform him/her that since Jesus was persecuted they would be too and the persecution WILL come from non-JW family members. To a person who is not very knowledgeable of the bible the WTBTS/JW group looks like the 'REAL DEAL'. They convince people in their own minds that all non-JW's will be forever destroyed out of existence by their WT God. Their doctrines are constantly chaning back and forth. They, as an organisation, protect child molesters from prosecution by secular authorities and further victimize innocent children by their untrained handling of child molestation cases.
It is one of the most dangerous religious cults in existence today. They use fear, guilt and coercion to isolate their followers from their family and friends.
If you attempt to reason with your father about the WTBTS's deceptions and unfulfilled false prophecies he will be convinced in his mind that the JW's are right and will immediately go into the WitchTower Trance. Your best bet is to contact experienced JW cult deprogrammers for information. One of the foremost is a former JW elder who was an overseer at the Brooklyn Heights, NY during the late 1970's. His name is Randy Watters. His website is freeminds.org and contains a lot of information for people who are trying to understand the JW mindset.
I really know how you feel because I was an active JW for almost 15 years. When I voluntarily rejected their apostate teachings I became the target of scorn and hatred by many JW's. 2 of my children are trapped by this satanic cult. Many other non-JW parents of JW children go through daily nightmares of terror due to the demonic teachings of the WTBTS/JW's.
I wish you well and pray you will find peace and security in your search for answers.
Hiccup, are you there?... it would be nice to see the outcome of your questionning.
hiccup: What I am having a hard time understanding is if being a Jehovah's Witness is what has brought him to this idea? Is there anything within the religion that says that being financially successful is wrong
Joker10: Absolutely not! And it has nothing to do with religion. Have a straight talk with your father. Ask him why the changes? Maybe he needs help from his own family.Sirona: Please note that Joker10 is an active witness... Why not just look into the matter yourself to see what is the truth?
Joker10: Why would an "active witness" not say it's OK to have a real career? >>> Since Sirona is shoving no good answers down people's throats, why not talk to Witnesses personally? Instead of listening to biased opinions.
I have to agree with Sirona on this one... Almost every assembly talk (especially aimed at youths) discourages higher education and financial sucess in this "old system". Sirona's opinion was by NO MEANS a biased one. It is, in fact, the active Witness who is biased because they are not permitted to see faults in the reasoning of the Watchtower Society. Anyone who questions anything and doesn't accept the prescibed answer is told their "heart-condition" is bad.
I have had first hand experience of being looked down upon in the congregation and having gossip and murmering spread about me, just because i went to university... and I stayed in my parent's home commuting every day and even did occasional auxiliary pioneering at the time. The view, is that you are selfishly pursing your own interests with no regard for "Kingdom interests".
It may be useful to ask a Witness personally but make sure you get a variety of diferent opinions and make up your own mind. Be careful though, you may not get a fully honest answer as many Witnesses use the "theocratic war strategy" if they don't trust the intent of your questions. Joker10's post above was a good example of this strategy.
If you want some hard proof of the WT Society's stance on "secular education" and pursuing a "worldly career" see the following:
http://quotes.watchtower.ca/scans/2001_KM_jun_ws_july2.jpg
http://quotes.watchtower.ca/education.htm
Watchtower November 1 1992 pp.17-21 Education With a Purpose
Awake! May 8 1989 pp.13-14 What Career Should I Choose?
Watchtower September 1 1975 p.543 Questions from Readers
Awake! 1969 May 22 p.15
Watchtower 1969 March 15 p.171 What Influences Decisions in Your Life?
km 6/01 p. 5 Can You Make Yourself Available? ***
20
Do Not Be Distracted by Material Pursuits: Each young person would do well to ask: ‘Is my goal after graduating from high school to pursue a full-time secular career or is it to serve Jehovah full-time?’ Granted, taking the latter course will require sacrifices. But so will pursuing a secular career! In the end, which course will truly have a long-lasting and beneficial result? Jesus gave the clear answer. According to Matthew 6:19-21, he said: "Stop storing up for yourselves treasures upon the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break in and steal. Rather, store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." May our hearts never lead us to pursue a worldly career or material things instead of whole-souled service to Jehovah. All of us must recognize that the only treasure worth pursuing is a good relationship with Jehovah, so that we make his heart glad. (Prov. 27:11) By putting Jehovah first in our life while young, we show where our values are and how important the Kingdom is to us. Remember, "the blessing of Jehovah—that is what makes rich, and he adds no pain with it." (Prov. 10:22) Young ones have an excellent opportunity to show where their hearts are by giving something good back to Jehovah for all that he has given them. Bethel service affords such a wonderful opportunity for those who meet the qualifications.
The above is from the "In House" publication, not a public article and it typifies the Watchtower attitude toward education, business and that dreaded word "materialism". To be fair, the position on further education has relaxed a little, but they only encourage it if it may be used to further their own cause, not a personal career. [ after all "The world is passing away!"]
If your father chose to do what you say, I am sure that the congregation would wholehearty encourage him. Unless he is lucky and wiser elder counsells caution since he is very new to it.
Just encourage him gently to hold back a while ... Good Luck.
Great advice. Since Sirona is shoving no good answers down people's throats, why not talk to Witnesses personally? Instead of listening to biased opinions.
If there's one certain way to get a biased opinion about Jehovah's Witnesses - biased to the point of deceptively omitting any fact that might be negative - it's to ask an active Jehovah's Witness.
Thank you all for your support and for being so helpful. I just cannot imagine this being the life that he has chosen so I am still stunned. I am supposed to go home next month before I leave for Italy so I am hoping to sit down and have a talk with him, I just know I will get angry as soon as he brings up this new life. I feel like a brat for being this way, it isn't as if he has died but it feels that way to me right now.
I really do appreciate all of you and it makes me very hopeful that he can pull himself out of it I just hope I don't do or say anything that might make him take a step back.
