A Christian question, but applies to all thinking Christian too!

by free2beme 100 Replies latest jw friends

  • JamesThomas
    JamesThomas
    If you think you are not relying on any mental constructs - beliefs - I say you are not looking hard enough. We need our mental constructs to get dressed in the morning, to walk down the street without falling down.

    Jgnat, you didn't say as to who you were referring the above statement, however since I too mentioned "mental constructs", i would like to reply. The mind is a wonderful tool, and we require it's mental constructs on a day to day practical level. However, to unquestionably believe that the mental constructs of some particular religious dogma is factual is to live a fairytale and become blind and numb to what is real, actual, and true. What is watching the mental constructs? Is That, a construct? Can It, be written, spoken, or somehow limited to or placed in a box? How deep does it go? Paradoxically, we believe in beliefs (notice the circle) because we feel a need for something to fill the void where Reality seems missing. Missing, because our attention is on beliefs rather than Reality. The way out of the circle is to stop believing, use the minds thinking abilities only when necessary, and be very present with what the universe is presenting in this present moment (silently, and void of mental commentary and judgment). In other words, really be with Life/Reality. Then see. Go deeper into what is already true, and see what it has to teach and reveal. Really discover what has been here all along; and rediscover that you are not the lost and broken child believed to exist. j

  • NeonMadman
  • free2beme
    free2beme
    If Jesus never lived, then how could he have been gay?

    Jesus was gay? Never knew that was part of the legend of Jesus

  • free2beme
    free2beme

    were it not for the fact that there are so many who take it seriously and are extremely vocal in their seriousness

    I only had to read this far to hear, "your going to hell, your going to hell, your going to hell" in my mind. I know that Christians do not want to accept the Christ-myth. If they did, they would not be Christians. So to show an example of a Christian using limited info to prove their point, is as expected as the sun rising tomorrow.

  • the_classicist
    the_classicist
    I only had to read this far to hear, "your going to hell, your going to hell, your going to hell" in my mind. I know that Christians do not want to accept the Christ-myth. If they did, they would not be Christians. So to show an example of a Christian using limited info to prove their point, is as expected as the sun rising tomorrow.

    Which person said this? Frankly, free, I would ask you to stop trolling and simply respect other people's beliefs. Clearly, you cannot do that and will not since that is the nature of a troll.

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    Was this a quote from one of the articles?

    were it not for the fact that there are so many who take it seriously and are extremely vocal in their seriousness
    I know that Christians do not want to accept the Christ-myth.

    I think there are three sorts of Christians:

    Some are in the same boat that I've just found myself in reading this thread - they simply haven't researched or discovered the alternative views but once they do they will explore all the avenues.

    Some of them don't want to know out of fear - its always scary when something pulls the rug from under your feet - so they stay where they feel safe. They might have a sneaking feeling that it doesn't make sense but daren't look into it.

    Some of them just don't want to know out of what I suppose you'd call blind faith - the most dangerous type IMO because those who don't question their beliefs are the ones who tend to think they're right and everyone else is wrong - and we know where that leads

  • jaffacake
    jaffacake

    If the Bible is true, then it all has to be true ...

    I am a Christian, but I don't believe any of the Bible is true, that is if you are decribing truth as meaning literal, or verbally infallible, as the fundamentalists & JWs etc believe. It is full of myth, errors, as well as inspired truth. Its authors were often wrong. I still believe its authors, and others were inspired (discuss definition).

    I am a Christian, largely as a result of my study of science, having been agnostic or possible atheist for most of my adult life. Although we come from completely different perspectives, I am a Christian who pretty much concurs with James Thomas' worldview. That may seem a contradiction, but that is because I cannot put my thoughts into words as he and others on this board can.

    p.s. you may well be right.

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    James Thomas, what you describe sounds much like the Transcendental Meditation techniques I dabbled in many years ago. There is much to be said for peacefully observing and absorbing the environment. And it is true that assumption can close off reality. For instance, I was regularly amazed how new art students could not adequately observe or reproduce "apple" or "chair". Invariably the apple came out round and red, and the chair, well, the chair belonged to Dali. No two apples are the same, and they are never perfectly round. Chairs are never square. I bless my art teacher for that big lesson.

    For myself, I did not find the divine within, but rather without. In giving. Even for those who have given up the proscribed constructs of organized religion, I think, still are bound by the limits of their own mind. The mind must be structured in order to operate. Sad Emo, I don't fit any of your three categories. I know of the research, but as a skeptical Christian, I don't see how swallowing a debunker's novel is any more intelligent than believing in the human race's capacity to get most things right. Take for instance even modern biographers, who happen to have an agenda, who manage to "get it wrong" when describing a modern hero. I am also unafraid to examine my core beliefs. And, finally, my faith is not blind. I have re-examined my core beliefs many times over. JWD helped with that!

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    jgnat- sorry if I caused any offence. Maybe my categories were a bit simplistic! If I dared to put you into one, from what you've said, it would be the first (I'm not good at compliments - so please take this as one!)

    I don't see how swallowing a debunker's novel is any more intelligent than believing in the human race's capacity to get most things right. Take for instance even modern biographers, who happen to have an agenda, who manage to "get it wrong" when describing a modern hero.
    I have re-examined my core beliefs many times over.

    We don't know what is true or false for us until we look at it from all the angles - which is clearly what you have done. There's so many more people, myself included who have yet to discover and sort out the truth from the fiction. Hopefully JWD will help me too

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Wonderfully diplomatic answer, Sad Emo. I am personally allergic to labels. I would hate to see all Christians painted as "ignorant" or "fearful". Thank you for widening your perspective.

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