by truthseeker 45 Replies latest jw friends
"lives of quiet desperation ": So true, along with the disclosure of this new breed of JW.
Again, "lives of quiet desperation", until something happens and the individual "can't take it anymore"; then it gets not so quiet, but still desperate.
Mustang
As I read, truth seeker, you were killing me softly with your song...
I'm only now understanding how this is the case. I've just come to understand the real "truth" about the WT Society since last September--as a longtime "organization man." Even as I was reading your post, I received a call from my ex-wife in which she admitted to never really believing they were what they purported to be. My own daughter has expressed the same thing to me. My reaction?
WHAT THE &%@!!! Was I the ONLY guy who took this stuff seriously??!! I was SERIOUS about this thing! I really believed in it!
In reality, though my ex-wife and I are apart and have only small dealings, it was so incredibly refreshing to hear her expressions in this regard. I'd felt a responsibility to share with her what I'd found--because I was the one who got her involved in this mess. But she'd already figured it out long ago.
Unlike others, though, I don't think I'll be able to live among the class you've identified. I can play along for awhile, until things are easier on my daughter, but it's time for me to start learning how to live.
My love to all my true brothers and sisters who've gone through--or are going through--what I am now.
Just how many people like this there are is what is open to speculation. The fact that Tristram said your post described him suggests there is a lot in your theory.
One person -- or hundreds of people on a message board -- suggest that there is an entire "class" of underground Witnesses who are doubting? There are over 6,000,000 Jehovah's Witnesses. How many people does it take to form a "class" of people? One percent perhaps? That would mean that there are 60,000 underground JWs in this class. Is there any doubting/ex JW message board that even comes close to this number?
You cannot extrapolate from your own personal experiences -- and from contact with people on a message board -- to the whole of the organization.
Unquestionably there is information that is more easily available about the JWs than ever before. But to conclude that there is an entire class of doubting underground ex-JWs seems a little bit speculative if you ask me.
B.
But to conclude that there is an entire class of doubting underground ex-JWs seems a little bit speculative if you ask me
Logan,
Not sure what your point is. You use the term "entire class" as if this necessarily has some large numerical value. Whether there are hundreds or thousands of such people, so what? Of course speculation is involved but I don't think truthseeker was suggesting the liklihood of anything more than a growing minority.
Logansrun, maybe class is not such a good word. But it's the only one that comes to mind.
It does seem to be a phenomenon, and I think what Jaffa Cake said about "a growing minority" is spot on.
You don't have to necessarily know someone in person to be a member of this "class."
The sub-group of JW's I am describing are basically those that are "trapped" in the organization for the forseeable future. This could be because of family and friends.
Members of this group go through the motions of following Bethel's dictates, but still come to boards like these and discuss issues.
TruthSeeker, I believe you are dead on as well. It's certainly more than two on this forum of 15,000 alone (there are some two in this thread!) and that makes a group.
As to myself, the internet was not an option in 1977 when I left. If it had, I would probably have been less hasty in my departure for the sake of the children. Knowing that there would be some psychological support online would have been a huge boost to my confidence. Also, the research capabilities are greatly superior now in comparison.
Yes, I would've been part of that class you talk of -- for awhile.
Truthseeker,
I agree with your statements fully, especially in regards to the "younger" generation of today's techno-saavy kids. The numbers of this subgroup in relation to the whole may be debatable but I would expect it hits six figures internationally (though I would include discouraged individuals who see the continual "tweakings" of GB prophecy fall flat but decide to keep their mouths shut). When I faded from the org. in the early nineties (just before the popularization of the internet) large swathes of publishers were picking and choosing what rules they were willing to follow and to what extent.
I'd expect only a small percentage of JW kids haven't "googled" JW's on the web!
W.
I have strong suspicions that I have converted a family member to the class you describe.
I'm of this so-called "class." I have suspicions on two others as well.
I can post my exerpiences/feelings of being part of this class or group.
-it's so true that as you realize that your kh friends are conditional on your religious agreement you really begin to distance yourelf. Why would I want to be close to people who don't like me for me but only for what I believe. I'd much rather make worldly friends that could care less about my religious feelings.
-fear of being found out. I've been fading (became a member of the class) since 2002. That's a long time to research, analyze, ponder and decide matters relating to your faith in God all by yourself. Yes, the internet has made all of this possible, but I'm still alone with my thoughts most of the time. Healthy non-witness friends make a world of difference in going through the process of exiting. Not friends that tell you how screwed up you are or how you should believe, but friends who will just listen to all the small petty jw issues as you wake up to freedom.
-fear of being found out (again). Imagine everytime you comment at the meeting, give a talk or just have a conversation with a true believer you put yourself in a position of slipping up. Perhaps you use the wrong term, you know dubspeak is very specific. Perhaps you haven't been studying for the meetings and not really paying attention so that the newest light escapes you. In a conversation that can have embarrassing and very serious consequences - especially if it happens to one or more people or on more than one or two occasions. Giving talks is the easiest because all anyone does is research the cd rom and sort of put it in their own words. But, while you're up there you have to keep your mind sharp, if you slip up - you're dead (figuratively).
-Once you really don't believe anymore but you continue to associate for whatever reason you run the risk of not realizing how weak spiritually you really look. The society knows the signs to look for and the elders are well versed in this. Has your commenting declined in amount, perhaps quality?; has your field service time dropped?; do you get to the meetings as early as you used to or stay as late as you once did?; do you miss meetings more frequently than before? especially bookstudy?; do you maintain the same amount of social acitivities with those in the hall who are/were your close friends?; there are more but you get the point.
As the one living the double life we don't always realize how we appear to others. That is dangerous and can really trip up a fader. They label you as weak; then you start getting sheperding calls; if you still don't respond and your body of elders is zealous you will get more and more attention. They want to bring you back, but barring that they will punish you.
-living with believing family. Imagine the entire family as believers. Everyone reads and studies together. There is a family study in which everyone participates and enjoys time together. Then all of a sudden one of the mates doesn't believe. Your entire foundation is gone, wiped out. The believing mate is torn apart. If that believing mate goes to the elders or others in the hall to get advice (either to answer unbelieving mate's gripes or just to vent) the cat is out of the bag and the fading plan is out. You then cannot live two lives.
-if you have children, watching them get indoctrinated makes your stomach turn. If you come out against everything then the believing mate will get doctrination assistance from the local congregation and family (if any are dubs). If you do nothing you run the risk of the kids being totally brainwashed while you stood by and watched. Watching your kids brainwashed slowly and knowing that the outcome will be a hatred of you and your beliefs is maddening. Some go through all of these things just to slowly and quietly undermine the indoctrination effects.
All of this makes for a stressful life. For most, including me, it can only go on so long. Long enough to show your mate that you are a good, honest and loving person who will treat them with the same, perhaps better, respect that you did as a believer. Perhaps for some they do it long enough to get small children past the age of easy indoctrination.
I believe classes like this spring up in every totalitarian regime.
There is another fact that you forgot. This group of people is growing as time goes on.
There is no point arguing about how many people there are. The point is that the number is growing.
