Apportioning blame in the WTS organisation

by greendawn 15 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  JT

  I feel and think exactly the same way. There simply is no excuse for their ignorance to the truth about the WTS. Not as long as the internet is alive and well.

  sKally

  #########

  while i fully understand your view, i think that if you were to do a little research on Conditioning and how High Control groups work, you would find it very interesting in terms of how folks can be influenced to do some pretty wild stuff-

  let me ask you- when you were just baptized , lets say 1 month, and you or your loved one needed blood, looking back do you think you would have taken it with the elders, CO and HLC standing there?

  would you have considered it to be a test of your loyalty to god? or would you have considered it to merely be a personaly family matter that the elders, co and HLC had no business to involve themselves in-

  how do you think during that time when you were buring with fire and zeal you would have responded-

  before you answer think about it for a moment and let me know and then i will tell you why i asked the question in this fashion or manner

  thanks

  james
• 

  Wasanelder Once

  Gary,

  "My theory is the Witness people are just people who enjoy being mean. The Jehovah's Witness group just gives them an environment that sees mean behavior as a virtue. It's not really very easy to find a club that welcomes meanies and trains them to be nasty mean.

  …I'd say the Witness people don't really follow the Watch Tower Society very closely."

  by what you said in both posts you seem to contradict yourself. The witnesses "Just enjoy being mean" is a very narrow statement. I do not defend the self righteous but I'll tell you that it exists in most forms of religious groups and not JW's only. (Trust me, some Mormons are not waiting till they die to become Gods!)

  Yeah, I know, end of the world, everyones bad etc. but in my experience it is not the desire of the majority to be mean. Thoughtless? Yes, a bit. I wasn't there where you were but in 38 years I didn't see the meaness you speak of. Sorry you went through that. Most of the loving people are duped into following the Society closely. Maybe you spent too much time with the slackers? LOL

  If the witnesses dont really follow the Watch Tower Society's instruction perhaps thats why you encountered so many meanies? Were you baptized?

  Better Days now though, eh?

  W.Once
• 

  sf

  Hello JT,

  Let me first say for clarification. I was never an adult jw. I was dfed at age 17...

  when you were just baptized , lets say 1 month

  I was baptized at age 13 or 14. I can't quite recall.

  you or your loved one needed blood, looking back do you think you would have taken it with the elders, CO and HLC standing there?

  I'm sure I would have turned to MOTHER and the rank and file for answers and direction. Looking back, I say what a terrible dilemma to be in or put in at such a tender age. I cringe thinking back JT. I really do. At the insanity of what we kids lived through out of fear of death by jehovah/ wt god.

  would you have considered it to be a test of your loyalty to god? or would you have considered it to merely be a personaly family matter that the elders, co and HLC had no business to involve themselves in-

  I'm sure I and the elders would have made sure I DID consider it a test. A test I must pass in order to gain everlasting life. How does any child at that age deal with such things with the threat of their god dismissing them? It's insanity. You would get a much different response from me to these questions, I'm sure, had I been an adult jw. No child should have such heaviness to trudge in their young lives. It is very damaging. I am damaged sir.

  JT...I appreciate what you may be about to share with me. Yet I must tell you, nothing you say can nor will change how I think of this corrupt and deceitful book corporation masking as a true religion of a loving god with caring and concerned adults.

  But please, be my guest. I'm all eyes.

  Sincerely, sKally
• 

  Frog

  I used to feel that each of us was equally accountable, that is even though I was raised in the "troof". I've come to feel differently about that though. The GB are most certainly accountable for the structure of the organisation, which shuts its eyes to the many abuses of it's subjugates. Not only do we have covered up sexual abuse, but we have the many thousands of us here who have suffered cruely at the hands of the org. They know about us, but they do nothing to help us. Sure we are all accountable for the decisions we make, and we have to take responsibility, but the WTBTS takes advantage of weak people in a vunerable state of mind. We all know how almost impossible it is to break away from the org when you're in it, you end up all churned up and squeezed out the other end of a very long, painful and unjust process.

  I think we were all victims in our own way, but the GB are most certainly hugely accountable, despite that most of us didn't have any direct contact with them. It's a well oiled machine, and yes they were talking to us directly through their publications, mind control from the platform and their circuit overseers. frog
• 

  garybuss

  Wasanelder Once, I was baptized when I was 12 in 1957. I was raised by Witness parents. My father was raised by Witness parents. My father was the PO and City Servant later. My younger years friends were a good cross section of Witness young people. My Witness friends were all good to me and, at least in appearance, I conformed to group regulations.
  The tide changed for me in the early 1970's. After my wife suffocated to death following the Watch Tower directions on medical treatment, and the Watch Tower Publishing Corporation started building their 1975 failure escape roads in 1973, I started to ask questions.
  The Witness people who have been meanest to me and my family are my Witness relatives and my Witness in-laws. They are elders and they are all Witness zealots. If you like to call them slackers, I'd have no problem with that term applied to them.
  The Witness people who belly pushed me and my 3 year old son away from a working, stocked, vending machine at a Jehovah's Witness Bismarck North Dakota district assembly and their boss, Duane Matz were working for the sponsors of the convention directly. If you like to call them slackers, I'd have no problem with that term applied to them.
  The Witness people who took my son out of the hospital against medical advise were all elders and other Witness zealots. If you like to call them slackers, I'd have no problem with that term applied to them.
  My brother and I were beat, pinched, and poked by Witness group leaders and their wives. If you like to call them slackers, I'd have no problem with that term applied to them.
  I don't think 300 Witness people snubbing me in one day a thoughtless act. It was actually done with thought. If you like to call them slackers too, I'd have no problem with that term applied to them.
  I've associated with an Evangelical Covenant Church long enough to have a very good look and I have seen NOTHING even close to the hostile treatment my family and I received by the Jehovah's Witness people. I'm very fond of the Harvest Church people.
  We really don't have much of a Mormon population here and I have no experience with that group. We do have a large Mennonite population here and I can tell you they are extremely nice people and they have treated me and my family good. I'm extremely found of the Mennonites as a group.
  My wife died following Jehovah's Witness directions. My sons were instructed by the Jehovah's Witness people to shun me. My Witness zealot brother and my zealot parents shun me and my family. My Witness in-laws threatened me and my family. Better days now?
• 

  greendawn

  So from Garry's experience it appears that some jw R & F are acting as if they are more royal than the king, they were very eager, over zealous in applying the GB directives and caused to him as to so many others great distress.
  
  Some R & F are benign people but some are just as bad or even worse than the GB.