Question for Christians

by Ticker 76 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • upside/down
    upside/down


    I was always told, and believed that "communication" with "God" was merely a term used for studying the scriptures and "discerning" an answer from them...using intellectual capacity coupled with Holy Spirit...whatever that means.

    But there was NEVER a claim of direct communication with Jehovah....never.

    So don't stretch it... there is enough real crap on the Dubs...we don't need to make up or stretch it. When "we" do, they use this to show the R & F how "crazy" us 'postates are...

    u/d (of the fight the fine fight without lying class)

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    Faith:

    What is sad but quite obvious is people who do have a relationship with God, especially as He manifested in His Son are much more kind and peceful on this board.

    I certainly haven't found that. Christians here are constantly telling me I'm going to hell for not believing in their sky-god. Having said that, most people here are very nice regardless of their beliefs (even most of the Christians). It is only those who come here to preach (usually Christians, I'm afraid) that really bother me, especially those who are unable or unwilling to engage in rational argument.

    Looks like the people who do not believe and do not have that personal relationship have strong tendencies to be rude and bully others.

    Could you provide examples? Otherwise it sounds like you're lumping together all people who don't believe as you do. Many evangelical Christians seem to presuppose that those who are not "saved" behave immorally. Are you sure you're not just falling back on such a presupposition? Be careful not to confuse being challenged over unsupported statements with being bullied.

    They also feel the urging to negate all other personal experiences with facts from a second grade science book, hoping to impress readers with their intelligience.

    I strongly suggest you read a second-grade science book. It will give you a grounding in science so you will have a chance of understanding the subject you're trying to debate.

  • Faith
    Faith

    I have had extra sesnsory perceptions probably from birth. As far back as I can remember I was sensitive to other peoples thoughts. I could know who was calling when the phone rang. I knew what my pets were thinking. I had a relationship with God before we ever walked into a Kingdom Hall or the church before that. I'll give you an example; we were driving home one night, we live out in the country, I have one dog that I am specially bonded to. On the way home she knew we were coming home, she got excited and I could see in my mind the pictures in her mind. She was seeing a yellow dog outside the fence. That is big doins for a dog. I told my husband (who is used to me by now) that there was a big yellow dog outside the fence. When we drove up sure enough, all our dogs were at the fence barking at a big yellow dog. She sent me those pictures when we were about 7 miles from home.

    God created all humans with extra sensory receptors, there is way too much evidence to negate that fact. I have read and seen the studies done on the brain. There even is a "god" center. All I know is the brain is an extremly complex electrical receptor. Electricity is capable of amazing things. Some of us look to the future with curiosity for new wonders to be discovered. Some are like many in the past clinging to the fact that we all know, the earth is flat and the universe revolves around the flat earth.

    My comminucation with my Creator is precious. I have no doubt that He hears every prayer. I am amazed that He can hear the prayers of a million people at once. I am amazed that He hears me. God validates my prayers in many ways in everyday life. I don't know anything about how it is for someone else, I only know how it is for me. Having a personal relationship with Gods Son defines who I even am. I know that the walls in the room where I lay from my illness are not as real as the infinite world that surrounds me. I know that when I die I will enter the world where matter does not abide by the same rules of this world.

  • Faith
    Faith

    But your post you are proving true what I stated. I have been attacked here by several people, I am abiding by the rules by not naming anyone in particular.

  • Faith
    Faith

    There was never direct comunication with Jehovah because we were taught we could not have that. The JWs didn't want to focus on scriptures that taught that we could have that with Jehovahs Son. Jesus is omnipotent and omnipresent according to the bible. Where two or more are gathered in the name of Jesus He said he would be there. So I don't know about you all,but if I have a visitor in my living room I am going to say hi at least.

    ps, I don't know how to make the cut and paste those cool yellow looking pages yet. Sorry. I apologize. You are much more intelligent that I am. Much more scholarly too. I should be ashamed of sharing my experiences with you. I obviously must be quite mistaken in all my personal experiences. All you old timers please accept my apology for wrongly assuming it would be encouraging to post here. I apologize for any ignorant Christian who has come in here. This is a forum for JWs and former JWs, sorry I am a former JW, Reformed, disassociated. Maybe if you send me a list different from what posting guidlines says that will help.

    BTW I did NOT post to debate any of you very intelligine people. I posted to anwer the FIRST poster' question by giving my personal experience. I did not read anywhere in the first post that this was a debating thread. Again I bow to your authority here.

    Peace Out,

    Faith

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien
    But your post you are proving true what I stated. I have been attacked here by several people,

    it's not being attacked, faith. like derek already mentioned, it's about being challenged to debate implicit assertions that you make for things that there really is no evidence for. it doesn't matter how precious they are to you, or how much you want to believe they are true. if they have no evidence to back them up, then you will be called out on them, as religious assertions are not beyond critical dissection.

    here are some examples of what i am talking about:

    I have had extra sesnsory perceptions probably from birth.
    She sent me those pictures when we were about 7 miles from home.
    God created all humans with extra sensory receptors, there is way too much evidence to negate that fact.
    My comminucation with my Creator is precious. I have no doubt that He hears every prayer.
    I know that when I die I will enter the world where matter does not abide by the same rules of this world.

    there is no scientific evidence for what you are asserting. if you are willing to say that you have subjective experiences and could be wrong in the end, then there is no arguing with that. but if you assert that it is true reality, then you must play by the rules of science.

    All I know is the brain is an extremly complex electrical receptor

    it's more than a receptor. but on the subject of it computing input, the input comes from our sensors. like runningman said, they are big and obvious. our eyes, ears, tongue, nose, and skin. they are so obvious, that observation alone proves that they exist and work. there is no evidence for some hidden receptor.

    Some of us look to the future with curiosity for new wonders to be discovered.

    ironically, you practically define what a scientist is, here.

    Some are like many in the past clinging to the fact that we all know, the earth is flat and the universe revolves around the flat earth.

    and again, here you practically define religion.

    I am amazed that He can hear the prayers of a million people at once. I am amazed that He hears me.

    i am amazed that people actually thinks he hears prayers at all. i am amazed at the amount of mental gymnastics required to picture a god like this.

    I know that the walls in the room where I lay from my illness are not as real as the infinite world that surrounds me.

    i am honestly sorry that you suffer from an illness faith. i saw a documentary a while back about this english individual that suffers from EB. the documentary was about how he went to meet with tony blair's wife, and she offered support. after the meeting he said to the camera: "it takes a shallow mind to think that there is no god. i have not suffered this much just to pass away and there be nothing more."

    it was a very moving sentiment for me to hear. and i completely understood and empathized with what he was saying, even though i would have fallen in his shallow mind category. but i still could not help but think of how religious thought has helped man deal and cope with the cold indifference of nature. i understand why man wants to believe in a god. why that hope means so much to him. but all the hoping in the world, no matter how much one suffers, does not change what all the available data suggests. and that's that we live in a cold pitiless universe, and are very possibly all alone. it's harsh to us, but not to nature.

    can someone who suffers from an illness still find meaning in such a place? yes. but it is way harder, i can only imagine. i don't look down on you for your belief. i have christian friends myself. it's not an attack. it's a dialog. if you knew me personally, and could hear my tone and inflection, you would know that i only consider this a debate of ideas. in the end, everyone goes their sepparate ways, and the lurkers are left to make their own minds up.

    take care,

    TS

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek

    Faith:

    But your post you are proving true what I stated.

    In what way? Like in your previous posts, I think the "proof" is largely in your head.

    I have been attacked here by several people

    It must have been in private messaging then, as I've read every post you've made on this board and all the replies, and I've been unable to see what you're talking about.

    I am abiding by the rules by not naming anyone in particular.

    I'm not sure what rules those are. If you think you've been unfairly attacked, please tell a moderator. But again, I think you're confusing people criticising what you post, with being "attacked".

    You're new here so maybe you don't know how discussion boards work. If you post something provocative, chances are someone will disagree. They're free to do this as long as they don't insult you personally or break any of the rules listed on the posting page. I don't think anybody has done that, and I would strongly suggest you refrain from making unfounded blanket accusations.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien
    I should be ashamed of sharing my experiences with you. I obviously must be quite mistaken in all my personal experiences. All you old timers please accept my apology for wrongly assuming it would be encouraging to post here. I apologize for any ignorant Christian who has come in here.




    faith,

    please don't be like this. it's nothing personal.

    you should post your own personal experience and story in a new thread. no one is going to go and debate you there. there is a difference between being in a debate thread, and being in support thread.

    edit: oh, and welcome to the board.

  • Faith
    Faith

    Thank you for the kind welcome Tetrapod!

    From my personal experience all the other boards are discussion boards, not debating boards. I thought this one was similar. I am not interested in debating anyone on any subject. I don't feel the need to negate someone elses experiences, nor to prove my own. Look at how some have pounced on my personal experience and ripped it apart and then demanded an explanation for my experiences? Some of you should learn how to play nice. Heck one poster basically said I did not experience what I did. That was insulting. I am now insulted. My religion has been insulted. Some of you have not been welcoming or friendly at all.

    Faith

  • Hondo
    Hondo

    Rex

    The Pope himself does not claim his is infallible. The fact that he is the Pope enables this selected person, as head of the Catholic church, to act in a infallible manner in matters encompassing a very small part of what he does, that is, in the area of faith and morals (this misunderstood by both Catholics and non-Catholics alike). All other matters of a Popes life are just like you and me. He's a man, and as such makes mistakes. There have been, as I'm sure you are quite aware, some pretty bad Popes over the last 2000 years. Some had families; some were crooks. Don't get infallibility and impeccability mixed up. A very small part of what the Pope does involves infallibility. Most of what he does falls under his ability to be as impeccable (this means being a good person by the way. Mother Theresa was an impeccable person) as possible. Even Peter, the first head of the "Universal (Catholic)" church, had his problems (he had his butt chewed out by Paul on a couple occasions), but in matters of faith and morality he, as most other Popes (260 of them so far) did, understood their place.

    Keep in mind, the infallibility part of the Popes role is rarely used, and when it is, is not solely his word alone, but includes the thoughts and ideas of a Echumenical Counsil. Oh, and by the way, the Pope does not talk to God, and if you were to chat with him, he would probably tell you so. And finally, don't even try comparing the GB, who claim to be prophets and talk to angels, with the Pope, or what he does. No comparison! None whatsoever! Read the Patristic writings of the church (It will take you a lifetime to do). In these documents, the early founding fathers, from about 100AD onward, kept a very concise record, starting with the infancy, and onward eventual growth, good and bad, of the Catholic Church; from the development of the first bible, and what was to be included in it, to many other historical decisions and aspects. Some that still affect our lives today, directly and/or indirectly.

    Take care. Have a good day.

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