Do you ever miss the ecstasy?

by logansrun 24 Replies latest jw friends

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  logansrun

  Hello folks,

  When I started to have serious doubts about Witnessdom a few years ago I embarked on an investigation which catapulted me into, what I have come to call, the "ecstasy of insight" and the "agony of doubt." I remember going to an out-of-the-way library one morning to read Crisis of Conscience. The day went by the way half-an-hour normally goes by. Before I knew it, I had read almost the entire book in one long sitting. My life changed that day, as it changed on dozens of other days in the fifteen months of research it took for me to finally, and rather abruptly, leave the organizition. As one question got answered three more would appear. 1914 was demolished, but what about the trinity? Evolution? The dates of composition of the Bible books? It's as if I flipped one switch in my worldview and had to analyze everything over.

  It was ecstasy to say the least. Time-honored beliefs that stood like Everest crumbled in just a few sittings. Finding the "truth about the truth" (which has become an unfortunate cliche!) became an obsession. A healthy one, perhaps, but an obsession nonetheless.

  Perhaps I'm unusual, but sometimes I miss the "pleasure of finding things out." Of course, I still find out new things all the time. Lately I've been fascinated by the classical philosophers, most notably Plato. But it's not quite the same. All the changes I have made in my worldview over the last couple of years have been gradual, and will no doubt continue to be.Sometimes I miss the ecstasy of insight; the rapid replacement of cherished ideas in the mind.

  B.
• 

  MegaDude

  Ray Franz describes that in a talk I have that he gave at BRCI called "Rock or Sand." At first there is a "high" at leaving the JWs and the newness of having a worldview that is free of the cult constraint. But it doesn't last and one has to soberly consider how to live one's life, decide what one will believe, construct your own "life view." Maybe the insights don't show up as fast and furious as they did on first leaving the JW's but they are still a constant. My own lifeview continues to deepen and become enriched. I am glad the heady newness and the constant barrage of new ideas and exciting new thoughts has passed. Or at least slowed down. The emotional pace was sometimes overwhelming.

  I've read a lot, but probably not as much as you. Enough to realize I don't agree with anybody a hundred percent and you have to make your own philosophy.
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  logansrun

  
  That's an interesting way of looking at it, Mega. I probably am glad that the "roller coaster" of life-changing ideas has slowed down...sometimes it's just a merry-go-round, you know.

  Of course, I don't minimize the "agony" of doubt that accompanied this ecstasy. I like to think of it this way: Imagine that there is some national crisis going on right now -- say, on the lines of the Cuban missle crisis -- and no one knew about it except for you and a few other people. As dreadful as the prospect of nuclear tragedy would be, it would be interesting to be "in the know" wouldn't it? (Remember the old Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times"?)

  Hope you're doing well, btw.

  B.
• 

  jeanniebeanz

  A very interesting reflection, B.

  That is how it was for me also. I have a voracious appetite for knowledge now, as if I have to keep learning.

  True, the euphoria of infatuation has left me, but it has been replaced with the comfortable love of knowledge. The facts used to be exciting, now they are confirming. My book collection has grown by leaps and bounds. I didn't even know how many I had until we recently began packing our house for a move. Out of a 10'X20' storage unit, fully 1/4 of the boxes are books. Most of them are natural sciences, a lot of history and religious anthropology.

  Rocker-Dude just shakes his head and smiles. Maybe, it's an addiction to replace the cult?

  Jeannie
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  MegaDude

  Of course, I don't minimize the "agony" of doubt that accompanied this ecstasy.

  Actually, it was the agony of doubt that drove me so hard to keep seeking. And at a furious pace. A lightbulb came on and I realized I was trying to solve a problem that couldn't be solved. The Watchtower gave me a mindset of absolute certainty. God, I loved that feeling. Once I lost the certainty of the Watchtower frame I had a vacuum that I tried to fill. But it was pointless because the original mindset was an utter and complete lie. I sure missed being certain and ran myself silly trying to figure "it" all out. It was quite the seductive mirage. Who knows how many books I read, people I spoke to, tapes I listened to. It was a mountain of material to process. I got tired of it after a while because after you read enough you realize there is no absolute certainty. It's a myth. A sweet idea but a myth none the less. Anyone who tells you different is trying to make your wallet lighter.

  Speaking for myself, I'd rather drink a bottle of wine with friends than read another (*&^ing book on philosophy.

  One book (and I do hate to recommend another book in the list of endless book recommendations) is one Jst2laws and Joy recommended called "The Myth of Certainty." In a nutshell, it's the story of one Christian's grappling with the problem of faith ... or doubt, as it were. He candidly comes to the conclusion that there isn't enough "proof" to have absolute certainty but enough to have faith. You could apply that frame to whatever you believe in. I have adopted that viewpoint as my own.

  (Remember the old Chinese curse: "May you live in interesting times"?)

  I haven't been bored in years. I'll never scratch the surface on all the stuff I'm fascinated by and want to learn more about. There is so much to experience.
• 

  SixofNine

  I miss it too, Brad. Most people take no delight in shattering their own core beliefs. You and I do. And this is because, whatever it was that shattered those core beliefs, is better; Truth, smashed by honesty! Reality! More Logic, less "knowing"!
  

  And yet, it's surprising how quickly you come to the bleeding edge. Oh there is plenty to *learn*, but it's just not the same when you don't hold your own beliefs sacred anymore; when you're no longer all that impressed by your own opinions.

  I think since I'm not involved in a fast moving scientific endevour, achievement is going to have to replace discovery for the most part (there are no more new frontiers_we have got to make it here).
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  GetBusyLiving

  I understand what you mean here logansrun. When I got my own copy of CoC I read that thing in 3 days.. I just could not put it down. Same thing with ISOCF. That was such an exciting time. Since then it's just been my peeling away at the onion and trying not to be cynical, in what I can see as a really cynic inducing existence. For me reading, learning, being curious keeps me happy.

  GBL
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  talesin

  Oh, man, I was just the opposite. I've always been a 'sponge' for knowledge, and hated the restrictions of JW life as a kid. I used to sneak books home from the library and read them under the covers. When I left, I was so sick of WT stuff, I first looked into other religious thought.

  RC, then buddhism, paganism, you name it. It didn't take long to exhaust my interest in dog, though lately I have been reading a bit about aboriginal religions (spirit guides, shamanism).

  This doesn't mean my thirst for knowledge ended, though. I've studied maths, accounting, philosophy, silversmithing, psychology, computers, and most recently, art. It's never-ending ... read tons of books ...

  There is no life forever in Paradise Earth --- now is the time to explore all those interests.

  Do I devote time and energy to discussing the evils of JW? Yes, it helps w/ my anger. Am I dedicated to spending some of my time in bringing down the Tower? Yes, of course!

  But they got the first 18 years of my life,,, the rest belongs to me! Me, me, me!

  tal
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  frankiespeakin

  When I first learn it wasn't the truth I felt RAGE not ecstacy. I was enraged that I would loose my a good portion of my family because I wouldn't keep my mouth shut.

  I did my best to talk to as many JWs as I could about the lies the WT was feeding them, they DF'd me in a few short months I found out 2/01 started talking to the friends about it 3/01 was ask to attend a JC 6/01 ,, they were probably stalled by the WT HQ's which I'm sure they had contact with,(I was a former elder and I knew from past experience they would do this stalling). I was talking to brothers on the east coast and west coast of the USA, and should have been DF immediately but they delayed and I kept talking and talking, eventually my stepdaughter was contacted by someone to stop associating with me,, even before a committee was formed months latter.

  They waited to announce my DF'n to coincide with they CO visit, I asked them when they were going to make the announcement and they would not answer my request, so I kept on going to all the meetings until they did and it took a couple of weeks, and the PO got up all puffy and yelled into microphone "This is to inform the congregation the David Wiltshire has been disfellowshipped (He really shouted the word Disfellowshipped" in great anger and feeling he was real meladramatic it was funny). I think that gives you a picture of how I felt.
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  nowisee

  raised jw.

  i remember the day as a teen when my father came home from work in the 60's distraught, crying, saying the latest wt flip-flop in doctrine could not possibly be right according to scripture. this was the beginning of a huge spiritual crisis in my family. my only frame of reference was the direction of Jehovah as understood thru fds as explained to me by local cong. particularly my father.

  so who was right, my Father (wts) or my father??

  if this was not the "truth" then nothing mattered. i almost got on a bus, as this lusty young teen, to go and join the girls at mustang ranch in nevada. it was either black or white, no in-between.

  long story short. many revolutions, much evolution in thought over the intervening years. much reading, the usual coc, isocf and lots of others. i came to this forum a couple of years ago as a baby Christian, thinking i could share my faith and help others here.

  having my new faith challenged here was quite an extraordinary experience, as again i was confronted with many questions i seemingly could not answer.

  it was once again, having certainty slip away. sometimes now, i think i believe simply because i want to believe, because to my mind the preponderance of the evidence points in that direction, and because the Christian life seems to me to be the best way to live, i.e. love God, love neighbor, etc., because it definitely has made me a more loving, more honest person.

  ecstasy i have never experienced. just questions and more questions.