by blondie 38 Replies latest watchtower bible
Sorry, frankie, I thought you had some specific point that led to your conclusion.
Thanks, Farkel. I have enjoyed your writing over the years (saved most of it in my Farkel folder).
I wonder how I do too, wade through it. But those who forget it can be doomed to repeat it.
I wonder sometimes where the apostle Paul was coming from.
I did use it as a point with people who believe in faith healing and asking if Paul's faith was weak.
Still playing the piano?
Love, Blondie
Blondie,
Sorry, frankie, I thought you had some specific point that led to your conclusion.
No I leave that for the chrisitans, I much rather be vague and playfull.
blondie,
: Still playing the piano?
Yep. Still working on the Rachmaninoff Rhapsody on a Theme by Paganini.
Farkel
Hi Farkel,
Great to hear you on here again. As I've mentioned before, I really do love that particular piece of music. Anyone who wants to hear a 30 second clip of a Rhapsody On a Theme of Paganini can find it here:
http://www.musicbyrequest.com/webpages/wedmusic.html
Englishman.
This article highlights how the bodies of elders may all be different, the individuals on the bodies have differing talents. I'm not sure there ever was a "congregation body of elders" in the 1st century, after all.
My problems with this study are found here:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/94236/1.ashx
Even though Paul is talking about what he received from Jesus Christ, the WT has written Jesus out of the picture again.
Works-based religion undercuts the whole theme of the New Testament. It invalidates the Word of God just as did the "traditions of the forefathers" enshrined by the Pharisees. All this emphasis on doing and doing more is a heavy burden unworthy of the followers of the one who said, 'Come to Me and I will refresh you...for my yoke is light.'
OhappyDay--- I think christianity was always a works based religion .There are scriptures that say things about always staying buisy doing things for the kingdom interests. The scriptures where jesus talks about his load being lite was more about the weight of the mosaic law being lifted from it's followers . Jesus did say that no one can get to the father accept through him so he is really a mediator as the apostle Paul also wrote about there being only one mediator . I do think that the WTBTS is wrong by saying it's blaspheme to call jesus God tho .I think jesus shares the title with the Almighty God but is not ever called God Almighty . Isaiah 9:6 .
"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: not by works, lest any man should boast." -- Ephesians 2:8, 9 KJV
The issue is salvation. To be sure, Christians do works that stem from their faith, but they do not look to their works to give them salvation. Only the grace, or "undeserved kindness" (NWT) of God provides salvation through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
But in actual fact, Witnesses look to their works for salvation. Even the incapacitated, the lame and the blind are judged by how much "time" they spend in "preaching." If you don't "preach," you might as well forget about the new world and the Paradise. It's like saying, 'Jesus died for you, but you really have to make it on your own.'
OldhappyDay--- The apostle Paul also stated that faith without works is dead . It is all a paradox when looking at all the evidence . True you cannot be saved by any works of your own but only by the undeserved kindness but in order to be counted worthy of the undeserved kindness one must work in the preaching conversion area . Jesus gave many parables that show how he would view those that did not take up their responsibilities in regard to bearing witness to him among men . There was the one where the guy buried his talent in the ground and did not bring forth fruitage and was accursed along with the one that spent the talent frivilously .There was the parable of a man hiring out workers for the vinyard . There is plenty of evidence to show it does require effort on peoples part to attain salvation . The apostle Paul was merely trying to convey the proper frame of mind one should have about their position and that humility was required as jesus stated many times , the old exhalt the humble and humiliate the exhatant ones. He that is great amongst you must become as the least .......... yadda yadda
heathen, I appreciate your words. But I do not see a paradox at all; just a natural progression. When you love someone, you do things for them, you talk about them (positively). Love for Jesus Christ and Jehovah God naturally leads to talking about them and doing things to please them, as indicated by the Bible. Such deeds spring naturally from love and faith, they are not a matter of working our way to salvation according to the dictates of an organization. There is a difference between 'working out our salvation' (Phil. 2:12) and getting salvation by our works.
Deeds of love and faith are not the same as a highly regimented "preaching work." The preaching of the first Christians was not a regimented affair. It was rather spontaneous and informal. There were no commands to "do more." No one kept a record of hours or posted a national average. People of their own free will talked about Christ and lived Christian lives because love impelled them to do so, not an organization.
Also, Jesus said that the identifying mark of His followers would be their love for one another, not their preaching work. Again, this involves spontaneous feelings of the heart, not regimented duty. Our service to God should come from our own hearts. Not from the agenda of an organization seeking great things for itself.
That's how I see it.
