hanging onto old thought processes

by rebel8 17 Replies latest jw experiences

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  rebel8

  As a JW child, I learned to use the following "logic":

  1. Decide what you want to believe before you research or learn about it. (At the time, it was whatever the WTS told me to believe.)
  2. When you come across anything that supports your belief, accept it.
  3. When you come across anything that refutes your belief, reject it.
  4. Repeat steps 2-4 indefinitely.

  As far as I recall, I pretty much realized this faulty thought process before I left the JWs and stopped doing it. I went to college several years later, which just expanded my already existing ability to use critical thinking.

  A few ex-JWs I know (in my personal life, not on the forum) use this same process still. They are not using it to solidify their beliefs in religious/philosophical things anymore, but they are using it to confirm their beliefs in other life issues. They are able to convince themselves that certain things happened that definitely did not happen. It's really quite powerful to be able to completely convince yourself of a lie. I pointed this out to a few in particular, and to make a long story short, they are terribly unhappy with me.

  I don't know why I thought of this today, but anyways....I was wondering if you all had similar experiences? How did you get over it?
• 

  luna2

  Critical thinking is not one of my strengths. I never seem to know the right questions to ask.

  I try not to do JW-think anymore, so that's good at least, but I do feel like I live in a perpetual state of confusion. LOL
• 

  zagor

  you might find interesting to check out one of mine latest threads then

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/94165/1.ashx
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  poppers

  "They are not using it to solidify their beliefs in religious/philosophical things anymore, but they are using it to confirm their beliefs in other life issues."

  Yes, that seems to be a nearly universal phenomenon, and it is the reason people remain trapped in delusion and suffering. If one wants to find true freedom one must question all beliefs. Most people find such a proposition scary because to do so confronts one with the core belief: the belief about who they are. To look for ways to validate other beliefs ensures that one won't face the core fear that lies at the heart of the core belief: that they don't actually exist as a separate individual.

  In the discovery of what you truly are exists unconditional peace, contentment, and fulfillment. But rather than make that investigation, most are content to cling to what is familiar even if that means they remain trapped in delusion. Giving up the idea that they don't exist is frightening, for if they don't exist (their reasoning goes) then what are they? Who is willing to do this? At what point will this willingness arise? Start small - look around you, be present with what is in this very moment, be present with what is without retreating into any ideas which arise about what is unfolding. When you do this, where is the idea of "you' and where is fear to be found? When you do this where is separation from others, from anything whatsoever? Look and discover directly for yourself.
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  trevor

  Here is how Winston Smith described doublethink in the novel:
  
  

  "To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself.

  That was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink.'
  
  
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  out of the box

  Well, I am not sure this thought process is learned as a JW or if it is a human trait that is exploited by them. What I mean is we all 'rationalize' (some people do this more than others) when there is something uppleasant to deal with. Such as when on a diet; "well, this cake can't have that many calories in it" when on a diet. Or, "I don't eat that much" and still gain weight! Only when we begin to use this as a standard habit do we become lazy in our thinking! As a JW we do become lazy in thinking for ourselves and finding out what is out there. We are no longer concerned with 'out there' and we are channeled into a funnel of 'fed' information and a 'FEAR' of demons attacking us from all angles! Let's NOT ever forget what that felt like! A conscience so fine tuned that they don't need Gargoiles on the outside of the building to remind you of torture. Remember they talk about torture of the brothers and sisters all the time interjected here and there so that we behave

  out of the box
• 

  greendawn

  They do introduce in the unconscious mind very surreptitiously many poisonous ideas that can then be hard to get rid off, but with a good awareness expansion technique this can be taken care of.
  
  Their concepts about God's character and personality and modes of action are totally distorted, as is their concept of how he deals with manknd and the way the true religion should act towards it's members.
• 

  rebel8

  Veeery interesting replies, all!

  Well, I am not sure this thought process is learned as a JW or if it is a human trait that is exploited by them.

  Oh, yeah, I didn't mean to imply the JWs came up with this technique. I agree it is a human trait observable in non-jws. The JWs just learn to exploit things that work for them.

  I was thinking in particular of some relatives I have. A few still in the borg and a few ex-jws. The ex-jws are sadly using this technique in their lives still. I mean, they are experts at it. They are able to convince themselves of total/obvious untruths, and easily. They simply decide what they want to believe and then make up "facts" to support their desired belief. It is really sad. These particular people grew up in the borg and really knew nothing else, so that's where they learned it. Of course, non-jws are able to do this as well.
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  Carmel

  I find this thinking is true in many areas of life. Many "scientists" I work around grew up with a set of conclusions, studied at universities that promoted that school of thought and have spent their entire professional lives gathering evidence to support their thinking while conveniently ignoring evidence to the contrary. Not to different than what you find on the evening news on the political beat.

  carmel
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  ithinkisee

  I still have a hard time with thinking on my own. Even when I research stuff now I often look to apostate sites to see what the "real" answer is. Now I often try and stop myself and read the scriptures on my own and try to get the sense of it. Then I start poking around for clarifying info. Sometimes it is an "apostate" site ... sometimes a Christian apologetics ... sometimes a bible archeology site, science site, history site, parallel translation site, and so forth.

  Anyways ... yes, it is hard to rid yourself of that stuff. One time I remember a pastor schooling me on the original Greek and the NWT and I ran home to "look up what I should have said".

  How embarrassing.

  In my case it was nothing more than immersing myself in the journey of learning again and making a conscious effort to look up and get a feel for the scripture/principal in question before going for source material.

  -ithinkisee