I am not looking to debate creation or evolution. I just wanted to get some ideas from people on whats going to happen in the future. My sister married a Muslim, and they are strictly intelligent design creationists I believe, corect me if I am wrong. Also JWs have to be i.d. creationists. In school they teach evolution, and there are always shows on the National Geographic and other learning channels that are about evolution, and every day we are learning more and more about where we come from. Since this is such a huge issue for alot of religions, what do you think is going to happen in the future? If say in 50 years the evidence for evolution is so overwhelming that even the religions cant deny the proof will they just tell thier followers its a conspiracy and to ignore it? Or will they evolve and make their religion work with evolution? Just interested in everyones thoughts.
Evoluuuuution......
by gringojj 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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tetrapod.sapien
interesting topic gringo,
just a point of clarification: I.D. is creationism. it's just not young earth creationism.
my opinion on this subject, is that the evidence for evolution is already very overwhelming. and many spiritual people and some religions have adapted to the evidence. and i say good for them. chances are, they will be around longer than the ones that rail against evolution until their dying breath. and make no mistake, there will be some fundy religions that do this. they will not survive as well as the deist-based, or pantheist-based memetic adaptations.
i also think that the God of the Gaps argument is very telling with regards the future trend of theism in general, as well as acceptance of any scientific laws and theories. the general trend since the invention of scientific method and critical thought, is that the spaces for god to fill, have become smaler and smaller and smaller. probably, in the future, the only honest course of action will be for religions to go deist or pantheist in their general ideas.
the general problem is that once religions are organized, they change very very slowly and painfully. in religion, it is not "okay" to be wrong about a doctrine, as it is a scientist to be wrong about a hypothesis. there is not much room for error in religion. i hope that ultimately, this is it's undoing.
it's not about doctrinal debate. it's about disproving magical thought processes. scientific method, critical thought, and skepticism do this. they are aided by evidence and data that back up their objectivity and incredulity. IMO, people will start to see this obvious corelation between science and non-theism/magical thinking. and if it happens like this, the human species will truly become noble. if it doesn't, because we kill ourselves off in large numbers over energy or something dumb, then we continue as dumb apes. but all in all, i think the trend over the last few hundred years is toward genuine sapience.
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gringojj
Thanks t.s. I was actually hoping you would respond. I am really interested to see what happens with Islam. It is just so fascinating and I wish i had a couple hundred years to watch the outcome. Creationism is so deep rooted for Muslims and the middle east has so many Muslims that they could just shield themselves from the evidence but i dont think it will last forever. I think the Catholics have intertwined evolution in thier faith I coud be wrong. The other day my b.i.l. who is Muslim showed me a movie called "The collapse of Darwinism". It was put out for Islam as they kept reffering to Allah but it was an American narrator. I highly recommend watching it. After I watched it I was pretty much speechless. I didnt know what to say to him because it was nothing short of propoganda. It made the analogy that if you took all the parts of a 747 and mixed them up it would never be a plane. Then right after, several times they did this, the narrator would say "therefore, it is impossible that humans came to be by evolution. Humans were made by the all powerful creator, Allah!" or some cheasy line to that effect. They also kept reffering to how some of Darwins theories were wrong, therefore evolution is not possible, and how the experiment back in the 1900s when maggots formed on raw meat was evidence that evolution was not possible. Stuff like that it was just crap. Oh well.
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gringojj
Thanks t.s. I was actually hoping you would respond. I am really interested to see what happens with Islam. It is just so fascinating and I wish i had a couple hundred years to watch the outcome. Creationism is so deep rooted for Muslims and the middle east has so many Muslims that they could just shield themselves from the evidence but i dont think it will last forever. I think the Catholics have intertwined evolution in thier faith I coud be wrong. The other day my b.i.l. who is Muslim showed me a movie called "The collapse of Darwinism". It was put out for Islam as they kept reffering to Allah but it was an American narrator. I highly recommend watching it. After I watched it I was pretty much speechless. I didnt know what to say to him because it was nothing short of propoganda. It made the analogy that if you took all the parts of a 747 and mixed them up it would never be a plane. Then right after, several times they did this, the narrator would say "therefore, it is impossible that humans came to be by evolution. Humans were made by the all powerful creator, Allah!" or some cheasy line to that effect. They also kept reffering to how some of Darwins theories were wrong, therefore evolution is not possible, and how the experiment back in the 1900s when maggots formed on raw meat was evidence that evolution was not possible. Stuff like that it was just crap. Oh well.
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tetrapod.sapien
HA HA! LOL, gringo, i'm sorry you had to go through with that. they are just as mindless as any of the other abrahamic faiths.It made the analogy that if you took all the parts of a 747 and mixed them up it would never be a plane.
this is an ignoramus version of the argument from design, or teleological argument. see William Paley for more. of course, if Paley were alive today, he would probably be a biologist, but alas he was pre darwin, and so worked with what he had.
there are many refutations online and in print. it really is, as you know, a non starter, ergo your sick sort of feeling while watching the video. let me know if you want more info on it.
a quick quip i would be tempted to say to this guy, would be that throwing all the parts of a 747 into a junk yard would not make a 767 either. any body who does this should be committed, along with anyone who actually uses this argument.
or, i would say that throwing a bunch of middle eastern cultures together made allah, so why couldn't a 747 come from a hurricane in a junkyard? LOL, just kidding, don't say that one.
They also kept reffering to how some of Darwins theories were wrong, therefore evolution is not possible,
perhaps remind him that this is a non sequitur. define it for him if required. and then remind him, that science is allowed to be wrong, unlike islam. and then ask him what darwin was wrong about. i bet they don't know, or if they do, it's a misrepresentation.
he he he
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Dazz_C
>>If say in 50 years the evidence for evolution is so overwhelming that even the religions cant deny the proof >>will they just tell thier followers its a conspiracy and to ignore it? Or will they evolve and make their >>religion work with evolution? Just interested in everyones thoughts.
IMHO religion has to evolve or die as its environment changes, same as everyone and everything else. As TS said some already are, the ones that don't (eg JW) will eventually disappear.
BIG PICTURE I think that the human race is currently the equivalent of a young child finding it way in the world, and slowly working out that our invisible friends arent actually real. We're also currently learning that biting our siblings doesnt actually achieve anything and that pissing on the carpet and eating all our lollies in one big gorging session isnt that clever.
Some people are learning these lessons faster than others. The whole thing takes time. In a thousand years or so we might reach a few more milestones - start contributing to our homes upkeep rather than being a drain, meet the neighbours for a chat, and stop fighting with each other. Not looking forward to those teenage years though.
Stretching the metaphor but its fun.
Cheer and beers
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stillajwexelder
It will take time - the catholic church eventually accepted Galileo - but long after his death -it will happen - it has too - but it will take time
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Carmel
Real evolution of religious thought comes not from within but through new revelation from age to age. Don't hold your breath for any of the dualist or monistic religions morphing soon.
carmel
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Satanus
In the early days of archeology, most archeologists approached their excavating work from the creationist paradigm. Most of them ended up recanting in the face of the overwhelming evidence that they unearthed. Hopefully, this trend will continue as more facts are established. Of course, there will always be holdouts and holdout groups.
S
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peacefulpete
Just to clarify, most orthodox Christian and Muslim sects have come to some kind of terms with evolution. Both Islam and Judaism have a long history of encouraging intellectual progress. Do a google using words like, "Islam evolution" and right away you find examples of Islamic teachers accomodating evolution to the Koran. What is alarming is the fad of fundementalism, both Christian and Islamic. Many sociologists have posed theories as to why this is so. Generally it is argued that the fast changing world leaves some to cling to the certainty of such totalist religions. This is I fear a problem that will haunt us for a long time. The best we can do is educate the young to recognise the dangers of uncritical thinking and isolationism.