Why do/don't you believe in God (page 13)

Spook

Oh yeah,

And since it is *possible* or *can be* that a god is believed to exist, I hold all believers personally responsible for upholding all the actions of their god. I do that in my communication with them, and let them know it.

zen nudist

I beileve in an ultiamte reality which I call the Generator of Dreams [perhaps nightmares]

which of course did not create itself, or my ultimate self.... my eternal nature was no one's making, no ones plan

no one's purpose and thus under no one's control... it just is what it happens to be, and it may just be that I am God suffering

dementia, paranoia, multiple personality disorder and altzheimers.... dreaming taht i am 6billion plus humans and several times that in other sorts of moving animals, but its not my fault.... I yam what I yam and what I am becoming...and I dont believe freewill is more than another myth created by own overall adled mind.... which seems to be filled with such things... again for no other reason than that is how it must work

daystar

tetrapod

do we have to learn things the hard way all the time?

Most people seem to, yes. It has been said that a smart person learns from their mistakes, but a really smart person learns from others' mistakes. How many really smart people do you think there are in the world?

By your other responses, I think you may have attributed some qualities to me that I do not have. I will often speak in religious terms to religious people to make a point, or attempt to. I, however, do not believe that a being called God exists in heaven, doling out law and retribution. It seems to me that there are forces of the Universe, known and unknown, that mankind has superstitiously assigned to a god or gods, and that there are similarly aligned symbolic sets within the human mind that lend to their credence.

In any case, I can read a book about marine life and know all the names of the different species, etc., without ever having stepped onto a boat or a beach. I think that actual experience of a thing, however, makes that thing much more meaningful, and one might learn more than just what was written in that book.

tetrapod.sapien

good point daystar,

for example. i do like going to the zoo. why? i can learn more about those animals online than i could at the zoo. but i go to be inspired. so in that sense it would be great if god would appear to me and inspire me. LOL

seriously though, i didn't think you some fundy, ever, and i appreciate your comments, even as a devil's advocate.

cheerio,

TS.

jaffacake

I think I believe in God, but only because of science, and in particular evolution.

I do have doubts and alter my beliefs quite frequently. Please don't draw too many conclusions about what I mean by 'God'. I know how the Watchtower conditions people to put everyone into neat little boxes - like born agains, catholics etc.

As far as I can know, I am the only person who ever lived that believes just as I do, aren't we all like that, at least those of us who are allowed to be? I am inclined to believe in the Bible, but my understanding of some of its teaching bears no relationship at all, from what I have read on this thread, to what athiest seem to assume.

I love science, but the more we learn, the more we understand about how much more we don't understand. We better appreciate how much we can probably never know. When we think we are close to our destination we find another mountain peak, all very exciting though. The more we learn, the more we recognise that answers to the really big questions are as far from our grasp than ever.

Neither science nor religion are even close to explaining, for example, how life began.

tetrapod.sapien

As far as I can know, I am the only person who ever lived that believes just as I do, aren't we all like that, at least those of us who are allowed to be?

jaffacake,

i have to admit that everytime you post, you surprise me, in a good way. i find what you say very interesting, and i think it's fair to say, that yes, there are very few christians that think like you. would you consider yourself (here are some labels to mull over, sorry): a deist/christian? a pantheist/christian? and if any of these are close, how do you justify the association between the two (or three), philosophically?

cheers,

TS

hmike

Tetrapod,

From your quote of Pascal:

if god exists, he will reward atheists for using their given brain power and critical thinking ability in the afterlife, as so will be rewarded.

Being a thinker, it makes sense that he would see intellectual effort rewarded. Didn't Pascal realize the Bible teaches that effort is rewarded only if it is based on good choices?

It's interesting that, in the parable of the talents, Jesus didn't include someone who took the talents given him and lost them on bad investments. Just like an elegant home built of the best materials with the best design can be brought down by being built on a bad foundation, or an argument that begins with an inaccurate premise can't be saved by flawless logic, industrious, sincere effort, wrongly directed, is still wrong. If it was only a matter of effort and sincerity, then all the Jews in the time of Jesus who kept all those ceremonial laws had it made.

credulous religious folk will be punished for believing without any evidence to back it up.

Everyone should examine their beliefs. That's what I tried to encourage earlier.

religious folk will have lost an entire lifetime that could have been more noble and enlightened than believing in some nomadic tribal mono-god, and proselytizing or praying five times a day.

LOL, sounds like some impoverished monk pushing around a millstone. Maybe in Pascal's time and place, he saw the Christian's life as a pointless drudgery. No wonder an increasing number of people rejected it. Where is the joy, love, hope, and peace? Sacrifice, yes! Misery, No!

Now, about the difference between WANT and CAN. There are things you may WANT to do, but CAN'T (are unable), and things you CAN do (are able to do) but don't WANT to. What I was referring to here was the claim by some that Christians believe God to exist and the Bible to be true because they WANT it to be so (wish fulfillment). I would stand at the head of the line with you and anyone else in agreement that wanting something to be true doesn't make it true. Why live (or die) for a lie? But some people can't believe, even if they wanted to, because they have placed so many terms and conditions--emotional and intellectual, intentionally or unintentionally--in the way. I believe because I can--I haven't locked myself out. I wonder how many people are really, truly free to make a choice about this? I've seen people list the philosophical reasons behind why they do or don't believe. But how often are these simply justifications for a decision already made due to other factors? I'm not sure that we've really answered LouBelle's question as she intended it.

Let's say we have two people who know all about guns--how they work, what the dangers are, etc. They are both in possession of the same facts, yet one will collect and use guns, the other will have nothing whatsoever to do with them. Where's the difference? So why is it that evidence that is adequate to one person is irrelevant to another? The evidence is only on the surface--what's underneath? So when I say I believe because I CAN, I mean that it has a lot to do with me not growing up in a dictatorial, oppressive, cynical environment. I grew up in an environment of trust and integrity, where questions and new ideas weren't discouraged. So, I don't have to deal with some of the barriers or hindrances to faith that some people have to deal with. By saying I CAN believe, I'm trying to at least partially answer the original question the way I understand it was asked. Anyone can pick up a book of philosophical arguments; those are well-documented. The REAL reason as to why we do or don't believe, well, that's a completely individual thing, isn't it? And isn't it worth addressing and investigating?

LittleToe

Spook:

I suggest to all religious people that until such time as *you* can prove the existance of a deity that we make all our public decisions on the basis of material reality alone. Deal?

Most of us work on that premise already. So tell me, how does the counter-wise deal work, so we can get some equity here?

Pole

LT,

Can you outline the set of "uncolored" premises that make you believe in God? So far you have been refuting other posters' premises. That's ok, but, let's reason positively for a while.

God according to LT:

1.
2.
3.
Thanks,
Pole

LittleToe

Sure Pole

I met Him
I interact on a regular basis
I have a 100% response rate on prayer...

I have more personal reason to believe in His existance than I have in yours. We can even that up a little if you're going to the Amsterdam Fest, though

Why do/don't you believe in God

Share this