Why do/don't you believe in God

by LouBelle 153 Replies latest jw friends

  • LouBelle
    LouBelle

    Tetra: That is the wonder of everyone having their own opinion. You feel & believe the bible is morally flawed. I don't. I may not understand everything in it & I may interperate things very differently from others but for me I do see it as a moral book. To be honest I feel you just love debating & no matter what anyone says, you've got to debate the issue (I'm not being funny here, but that's just what I pick up)........and still no change in my fish!!!!!

    LT - no need to apologise - I'm adding new words to my vocab everyday. Besides it's kinda like waching you & tetra playing tennis.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien
    To be honest I feel you just love debating & no matter what anyone says, you've got to debate the issue (I'm not being funny here, but that's just what I pick up)........

    ...well, that's certainly not very observant.

    and still no change in my fish!!!!!

    don't hold your breath.


    BTW - there is nothing wrong with debate. and yes, everyone has their own wonderful opnions. of course, it doesn't occur to many people that as passionately as two sides may debate an issue, it is quite possible for one side to be just plain wrong. but, oh well! diversity is the spice of life!

  • googlemagoogle
    googlemagoogle

    loubelle

    For me God started creation

    and who started god?

  • LouBelle
    LouBelle

    Tetra: Put my feelings down to "finding my feet around here" And debate is very healthy. Nothing wrong in it, but if I say somethings black I have a feeling you'd try prove it was white....by the way could you suggest some reading material, so that I can brush up on evolution & get involved. I do however find your posts extremely interesting, I have to admit I even speak about your ideas/beliefs/stand to others....

    Google: Did I say that??? just 'cos I said it ( if I did) it doesn't make it truth & it doesn't make it fiction. Oh and last night I saw your Lady of Pink Unicorn at the Casino. She bought me good fortune.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Tetra:
    It's also possible for both sides to be wrong, or even (in far more unusual circumstances) right

  • hmike
    hmike
    if I say somethings black I have a feeling you'd try prove it was white.

    I haven't seen him dispute any atheist claims.

    Sometimes, some of us just feel compelled to set the record straight (as we see it).

    Tetrapod, if you don't mind, just out of curiosity, what is your motivation in standing up for the position you take?

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    loubelle,

    by the way could you suggest some reading material, so that I can brush up on evolution & get involved. I do however find your posts extremely interesting, I have to admit I even speak about your ideas/beliefs/stand to others....

    wow. that's a strange thought for me, but thanks.

    reading on evolution. yes indeed. start online and read the essays at talk origins: http://talkorigins.org/origins/faqs.html

    and then pick up The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins, and The Panda's Thumb by Stephen J. Gould. also, Ernst Mayr's What Evolution Is, is a good one too from what i hear.

    hmike,

    Tetrapod, if you don't mind, just out of curiosity, what is your motivation in standing up for the position you take?

    thanks. i always like this question.

    honestly, like everyone else and their own beliefs, i stand up for it because i believe it's right.

    but why do i make the extra fuss about it?

    i go the extra mile because of the under-representation of atheists in our society, culture and world. we are some of the most depised people according to surveys. and i am most concerned about the problems in the world. i see a track record of religion not really doing a very good job of solving problems, and actually creating even more problems via ignorance and arrogance. whereas science has a very good track record for solving problems, and enlightening and ennobling human beings in a way that religion never did, and never could. i see atheism/non-theism as inextricably linked to science, not only philosophically, but ultimately technically too.

    i want to make a difference. i think that if humans can shed magical thinking processes, then we can become much better as a species, and actually survive. and i think education about atheism and naturalism as ennobling worldviews, is the best way to do this. unfortunately this almost always involves debating theists who would, obviously, rather make the world "better" with god standing behind them. but i see their time as over, and even having pushed us into a rock and a hard place as a species, what with terrorism and fundamentalism. it's time to discard it, and move on. and this is why i debate, and stand up for my position. i want to help humanity, and i believe that a natural worldview is the first step in our becoming truly human and sapient.

    as far as JWD is concerned, i'm here because i need to heal from the witnoids , like everyone else. but also, i want to help lurkers who may be considering swapping jehovah for jesus or some other just add water deity. if i can help even one lurker appreciate the intrinsic value of a completely natural worldview, then i would consider my existence as meaningful. i see the pain caused by religion, not just in the witnoids , but in all forms of magical thinking. i know it can be avoided. it seems like a waste to not try and help.

    TS

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Tetra:
    I hope you don't mind me following hot on your heels:

    i go the extra mile because of the under-representation of atheists in our society, culture and world.

    I would say the same about my representation of believers in the JWD "society" (gah, I hate that word ).

    we are some of the most depised people according to surveys.

    Dunno where you're getting your surveys done, or which ones you refer to. LAt I heard Fundamentalism was topping the charts.

    and i am most concerned about the problems in the world.

    Good point, well made. A common concern, however.

    i see a track record of religion not really doing a very good job of solving problems, and actually creating even more problems via ignorance and arrogance.

    The track record of science is statistically impressive, but it's made it's own blunders, too. It's not perfect, just as religion isn't perfect.

    whereas science has a very good track record for solving problems, and enlightening and ennobling human beings in a way that religion never did, and never could.

    History isn't your strong point, then? Religion was the bastion of science and art, and held it all together for millenia, before it separated (of which I'm glad, for all that, though). Enlightenment and ennoblement came about more from the great thinkers, rather than specific scientific experiments. Shouldn't we give philosophy more credit, and weren't many of the great minds believers in some form of "God"?

    All that having been said, are we talking about God or religion here? As I have often been wont to say, there is a difference between spirituality and religiosity, and they don't often collide.

  • Daunt
    Daunt

    Religion has also been the blockade of science and art for many years. Art is more opinionated than science but there has been obvious holds on science many times. Just put aside Galileo and individuals like him, just the main concept of fundamentalist religion (Which most of history has been under) shuns anything that could possible explain it to be wrong about a belief. And yes many of the great thinkers of the past were under some form of religion, but they challenged that religion. That's the attitude of liberalism and not the attitude of scrict obiedence which the bible teaches and praises and which the leaders enforce. Me personally I do not like to credit atheism for advancement. Advancement can come whether your atheist or not. I believe that rational sketicism and the willingness to search for change is the major driving force for these things.

  • tetrapod.sapien
    tetrapod.sapien

    LT,

    no i don't mind at all.

    and you state the obvious in your points. i agree with the obvious. i don't deny that we all share a common desire to do better, and that we all think that we are right, while others are wrong. i certainly would never say that spiritual people have a desire to make the world worse than it is.

    just as religion isn't perfect.

    not "just as".

    History isn't your strong point, then? ; Religion was the bastion of science and art, and held it all together for millenia, before it separated (of which I'm glad, for all that, though). ; Enlightenment and ennoblement came about more from the great thinkers, rather than specific scientific experiments. ; Shouldn't we give philosophy more credit, and weren't many of the great minds believers in some form of "God"?

    religion and spirituality could not push science forward the way that secularism does, and can. it was good for a time, no doubt. in it's own time. but times have changed. how many of those old great minds would beleive in god if alive today? it's pure speculation, and biased to my view of course, but i would argue that hardly any of them would.

    TS

    off to the lake. talky laters,

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