Hi IW, Garybuss, and Neonmadman,
This response is to all of you, but is built off of IW's post for convenience.
I opened a new account here just to post on your thread. Won't be staying long. ... Believe it or not I'm glad Ros decided to keep Channel C going.
Thanks. I have been banging my head on the table trying to figure out who IW might me. So, if you wish, e-mail me at
[email protected]. Yes, I am pleased she kept it open.
But as you can see by the posts on this thread Channel C does not have what one would call an
inviting C
hristian reputation. ... Ironically, after backstabbing one another the Channel C Christians decide that to forgive and move on would show the world their Christian love. lol Sorry to disappoint them but forgiving and moving on is a human trait, shown many times by the good people on this board by the way, and does not in itself prove one a good Christian or Channel C a good Christian board.
I agree that forgiveness is not a trait unique to Christians. But, it is a trait that a Christian should at least be practicing, if one is going to be true to Christ. I can't speak to the inviting aspect, because the forum is not an open forum, but one confined to those the board own believes will contribute to the focus on Bible discussion. As for Neonmadman, I cannot say why one person from the same church would be selected, but he would not be. I guess it would be good to apply again, and explain this if he had not done so already. Otherwise, I can't speak to what Ros had in mind by rejecting any person under these circumstances.
She is also a member of the JWD forum, and can see how some have acted. For example, one poster who was kicked off of JWD and sent to another competing forum for his neo-nazi propaganda would not be allowed on CC. In making selections, she uses her best judgment. I have known Ros for over 13 years, so I do trust her style.
Channel C misses the mark on a grand scale! They exclude most of those who are hurting or are in the greatest need while including the close community of exJW Christian greats and the few who can serve as sounding boards for their posts. (yeah, I know, being a little unfair but not much)
Ros had other forums designed for those hurting and needing emotional and spiritual support. It worked well for a long time, but was closed down because those needing help reduced in numbers, while those interested in secular topics increased. So, she created a forum for secular debate. I was a member of both of those forums. They worked for a time, but are now closed. Channel C was never intended to be a healing station, but more of an expert or serious and experienced student of the Bible. It was intended to function on a different level. Like anything else, Channel C is not perfect, and none of its participants are either. So, it was bound to have problems eventually. I have been a member since the beginning, and I never saw any such difficulties. I have been there for a few years. The recent problems, in my mind, were a tempest in a teapot - especially compared to the flame wars we have had here, or elsewhere. H20 had the best all-time wars.
Ros asked you to help atheists. Atheists on her board? lol How many are there? 1 or 2 who are allowed to post? The atheists and agnostics are here Jim. Help hurting Christians here. The
righteous
have no need of repentance, remember?
She asked the board in general a set of questions as to how an ex-JW Christian might be constructive in helping an ex-JW atheist. She was wondering how we might find a way to develop common ground and maybe help prevent atheist as a consequence of leaving the Watchtower. I agree that it would have been useful to have some atheists, or at least come Christians who had walked the atheist road. But, there is too great a risk that the religious would debate the atheist rather than listen and learn. And, some atheists are as bad as fundy Christians, and can get as preachy, and try to promote propaganda rather than discuss topics.
I took up the call because I felt that I had an angle that might be useful and help kick off a constructive discussion. Channel C is not about being righteous, but about a dedicated focus. It is a specialty forum. However, it also contains some individuals, who although are ex-JWs, are fundamentalists and have a hard time coping with a broad view. So, they saw my approach as a threat to their narrow view. However, several supported my approach, and there was some constructive discussion. But, by and large, many saw me as promoting evolution and felt obligated to debate me on it, rather than understand the concept I tried to convey at the outset. But, again, CC is not about being an emotional support forum, but more about scholastics and academics.
Your evolution posts would have gone over much better here, Jim. At Channel C some put hot coals under your feet just for bringing the subject up. Nope, no closed minds over there. Nope, just a bunch of loving and inclusive Christians who love God and brother to pieces, literally.
I agree that I could have gotten much better play out of my evolution postings on JWD. My Christian background is not threatened by it. I can take evolution or leave it. But not all Christians can. Most Roman Catholics and Orthodox Catholics can accept evolution and engage in such a discussion easily. But, many in the Protestant Evangelical camp, and others that attract ex-JWs have great difficulty. Yes, in my opinion, some minds are closed. This mentality, in my opinion, resulted in some misreading my postings.
Carl Olaf Jonnson took up debating me over Carbon14 dating. he did a good job finding references, and I read every one of them. But as good as he is in researching information, I felt that he misunderstands the debate in scientific circles. As a result, I believe he misapplied statements by scientists in the field who use C-14, but also point out its difficulties. I worked almost 20 years in radiology in research, testing, and applied engineering. So, the topic was easier for me. But, I was unable to reason with Carl in the end. And, unfortunately, because some of the more fundamentalists on CC felt threatened by the implications of C-14 dating (which proves humans have been here thousands of years longer than the date for Adam's creation) they sided with Carl, who among ex-JWs has a more accepted academic reputation than do I. Carl's work on the "Gentile Times Reconsidered" is of superior quality, and a work that I could not have matched. However, Carl was out of his field in C-14 discussions, but his credibility overshadowed good science.
My post titled "Dichotomy of a Schizophrenic God" really caused a stir, and may have been responsible as a catalyst in getting the disagreements going. I was called a blasphemer, and promoting abominations, and evil. I was frankly shocked. Because the word "Dichotomy" was the tip off as to the intent of my post. Anyone as academically strong as many on that forum should have immediately known the focus of my post. But somehow, it was largely misinterpreted by the most scholarly among them. This suggested to me that they felt threatened and/or did not read my post. My argument was not that God was crazy, but if one accepts that pacifism is a required ingredient in the Christian character, then God would have to be crazy. The post was written in a thought-provoking style to expose' pacifistic views in a back- handed way as being out of step with God. Instead, the academics accused me of not writing what I mean, and not meaning what I write, and being unclear, etc. They simply did not want to deal with the hard reality of what I presented.
Now that I am thinking of it, I will repost my "Schizophrenic" post here on JWD and see what kind of response it gets. That would be an interesting test.
All in all, IW Gary, and Neon, I understand and agree that your criticism have some good merit. I hope that my explanation has at least mitigated some of the concern, and establish the limited focus of CC, but also gave honest admission of some of the weaknesses.
Thanks for your comments,
Jim W.
