How long is too long?

by Insomniac 47 Replies latest social relationships

• 

  Thegoodgirl

  Wow, you are in the EXACT situation my aunt was in about 4 years ago. She had been married and divorced as had the guy she had been dating for SEVEN years. She always wanted to marry him, and they really were in love (it seemed to me). They actually lived together for a while, and the whole time she kept trying to get the strength up to say "marry me or I leave". A few times, she moved out from him just to say, "I'm not moving back until you agree to marriage." It was something important to her as well. (And she has never been a JW or overly involved in church, etc.) So this went on, and toward the end, they were on again/off again for about a year. She finally got counseling and got some self-esteem. She realized this is just something so important to her, and by him not agreeing to help her reach this life goal, then he just really didn't love her to the extent that she needed from him. they were both sad, but she finally broke it off. She moved back in with Grandma and Grandpa, got a second bachelor's degree, changed careers, and is much happier. She took another class to learn a new language, met a nice, funny, and respectful-to-her-wishes guy, and they got married! She's been married for about a year or two, and she seems really content. She used to be always sort of on edge and quiet, but I would say now she overall seems more hopeful and content/calm.

  So that's one way the scenario could play out for you. I disagree with most of the above posters and I say you should leave if he cannot respect you enough to swallow his fears and marry you. No, marriage is not that different than dating (it's like you go to his house, but you never go home!) and you do have that "prestige" in the family and among friends that you can't describe unless you've been married, but if it's something you want, he should do it for you. You've waited long enough.

  By the way, I think my aunt regrets staying with that non-marrying boyfriend for so long. She always says in the end he didn't respect her wishes enough, and she put up with it for too long. She's now about late 40's, so she's like 10 years older than you. You're not that old.
• 

  Mecurious?

  Hey, you ought to go and read the articles at www.nomarriage.com. Most men nowdays are afraid of marriage because its not usually to their best intrest:

  As men, we all know that a woman's primary objective is to marry. After years of experience I've discovered their most commonly used strategy. here it is:

  1. Girl pressures guy for marriage.

  2. Guy delays.

  3. Girl gradually starts destroying guy's self-esteem and eliminating his friends.

  4. Guy becomes too weak and too much of a loser to find something better than what he has.

  5. Girl starts to limit sex. In effect controlling the only good thing in the guy's life.

  6. Guy is in despair. Capitulates to marriage.

  Then 5-10 years later the guy is an empty shell of his former self. Girl is a ruthless manipulating machine. Girl divorces loser husband. Girl takes 80% of guy's stuff because the guy is too brain dead to find a good lawyer. Girl lives happily ever after. Guy becomes bald alcoholic who dies of heart attack at 45 years old.

  M'
• 

  Insomniac

  Mercurious, dayum! I've gone out of my way to do none of that stuff! In fact, my guy has told me that I'm about the most easygoing woman he's ever met. When he and guys from his office go to a strip club (not often, but occasionally) I'm the one who reminds him to bring plenty of singles for the ladies, to have fun, and call me if he needs a ride home. I encourage him to spend quality time with his friends- in fact, he's in his home state right now for his high school reunion, because I told him he should go. Trust me, I don't stifle this guy. And no, I don't try to manipulate him through lack of sex, either.

  I keep thinking, if only I'd met him 25 years ago, when he was still an innocent romantic who'd never had his heart broken, had never gone through divorce. Of course, I would have been 11 years old at the time, so that's no good. Too bad we don't have time machines, it would have been nice.

  I do know that I don't want to be with anyone else. There are moments when I'm in his arms that I feel as though my heart will burst from happiness. He's my best friend; I'm the person he called first when he got promoted, and the person who held him when his beloved aunt died. The two of us separately are fractious, unpleasant, anti-social cusses; together we're fun, happy people who get along well and spend most of our time together laughing our asses off. I know how rare this sort of relationship is, and how lucky we both are to have found each other. I love him so much that I want to marry him- is that so wrong? I don't want a big wedding- heck, I'd be happy with a five-minute ceremony by a justice of the peace, and I'd look ridiculous in a poufy wedding dress anyhow. I just want us to share our name and our home and our cat. I can't believe that this makes me selfish or unreasonable, not when nearly everybody I know gets to be married.
• 

  Insomniac

  Update:

  So, we were chatting on the phone last night, having a nice conversation, I thought. Then, out of the blue, he volunteered the fact that he doesn't want to get married. Not right now, anyway. The reason he gave was, "I am what I am." WTF? that's not a reason! He then went on and on about how much he loves me, how he doesn't want us to split up...

  So I replied that I've been plenty patient, and I deserve a feckin commitment. I'm proud of myself- although I was choking back tears of rage and betrayal, I didn't raise my voice. In fact, I ended up going numb after a few minutes. I told him that the ball was in his court, that he is the one deciding if we stay together or not. When he repeated that he "is what he is," I replied that I am what I am, too, that I will be getting married, and I hope like hell that he'll be the lucky guy I share my life with, but if he chooses not to be, well that's his decision. There are plenty of men who do believe in commitment and permanence, and perhaps I'd do well to keep my options open.

  Why in hell would he want anything to change? He's got such a hell of a deal: a woman who supports herself and has her own apartment, but who comes over three nights a week to clean his filthy house and cater to his sexual needs, then leaves so he can have his damned space. No wonder he loves the status quo.

  The whole thing got me very upset. I told him I consider it a very bad sign that I don't feel much like fighting for this; a woman only gives up fighting when she ceases to care about the outcome anymore. Also, I consider it a bad sign that I'm starting to look wistfully at other men; I'm not going to cheat on him, ever, but I do find myself looking at guys I know and developing little crushes, idealizing them a bit. Maybe mentally preparing myself for being single again- something he told me I'd never ever be again. Finally I cut the conversation short, telling him that we'd revisit this discussion in one month's time, to see what's changed and decide what to do. He's of the impression that we don't need to change anything, but I can't go on being miserable. Twenty-nine days to go.
• 

  AllAlongTheWatchtower

  "Why in hell would he want anything to change? He's got such a hell of a deal: a woman who supports herself and has her own apartment, but who comes over three nights a week to clean his filthy house and cater to his sexual needs" I hate to sound like a cad, but I think you pretty well summed it up right there. A relationship (yet alone a marriage) is a two-way street, sounds to me like you're doing all the giving and he's doing all the taking. He's got every man's (selfish) fantasy, the only way he could have it better is if you had a sister or best friend and were amicable to a menage a trois.

  IF you decide this is salvageable, I would say the 7 year mark is the breaking point. Some ways that might make him more open to the idea of marriage: You say you don't want to "shack up", but maybe invite him to stay at your place for a couple weeks only, as a trial. This way he doesn't feel any possible threat of 'invasion of territory', and knows he can leave. (Many men fear that once a woman moves in with them, they will want to change everything, rearrange furniture, make him throw out favorite items, etc. Also that if things go poorly, there won't be a way to get them to move back out.) Tell him if its being 'taken to the cleaners' that he fears, you will enter a pre-nup.

  Beyond that, I can't think of anything that might help...and since it seems the gauntlet has been thrown down...it is possible that he will realize what he's about to miss out on and acquiesce. Absence (or threat of absence) makes the heart grow fonder, and all that. Then the question remains, 5 years from now, when you look back...will you be happy with a man that you know in your heart you had to FORCE into what should have happened naturally? I would call that a Pyrrhic victory, and I don't think you would find it very satisfying.
• 

  EvilForce

  As I posted before you BOTH may have to compromise if you want to stay together. However one must not compromise one's integrity. So if you feel that's what you are doing, you will only build a wall of resentment between you.
  Hope things work out for the best whether you stay together or move on. Either / or I'm sure you'll land on your feet. Keep us updated.
• 

  Dan-O

  How long is too long? I dunno ... that's a question that only you can answer. It's your life. I'm not trying to sound callous or anything, but even though I'm generally patient with others, I have my limits. I have that point at which I say "F*** it. I want X and you aren't coughing it up. See ya later." There are a couple of ways that it has worked out. Either folks look around & say "Gee, I didn't know it was that important to you. I'm sorry" or they say "I saw this coming. Toodles." or they say "You heartless bastard! How could you not appreciate what I HAVE given you!?" or they say something in between. It breaks the stalemeate, one way or another. And it sure beats sitting around for years (or decades) comparing what you have to what you really want.
• 

  Insomniac

  I'm very sick right now. The symptoms don't make any sense to me, and I can't figure out what is wrong. He offered to take me to a doctor and he'd pay for it. He says I'm important to him, that he doesn't want to see me get truly unwell, or to die. I find this hard to believe. Apparently he's perfectly willing to let me walk out of his life forever, rather than marry me. But he cares enough to want to take me to a doctor because I'm sick. Hell, if I died, he'd have one less decision to make.

  I will continue to try to figure out what's wrong with me, and to fix the problem. But I think I'm just under a lot of stress, with everything up in the air the way it is.