New Testament Paradise Earth

by TheListener 36 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • TheListener
    TheListener

    One of the things that bothers me is the very little or almost non-existent way the paradise earth is talked about in the new testament. I've never heard a dub even think about that for one second.

    The only occasions I can think of that the dubs use to show the new testament does in fact talk paradise earth is the scripture at Matthew 5:5 (about mild tempered ones, or meek inheriting the earth), Revelation 21:3,4 (about no more sickness, sorrow, suffering nor death) and Jesus on the cross saying that the guy next to him would be with Jesus in paradise.

    None of these are overly convincing. Why didn't the apostles talk more about the paradise. I mean when paul was writing letters to the various congregations why didn't he say "remember, in a short while we'll be on a paradise earth and everything will be ok."

    I imagine, if I ever got a dub to discuss this, that they would say that the new testament was written to heavenly bound individuals therefore has hardly any references to the paradise earth, but by having two distinct classes of worshippers jesus clearly showed some would be on earth and others in heaven ruling them. Plus I believe they would use the scriptures I quoted above.

  • DannyBloem
    DannyBloem
    I imagine, if I ever got a dub to discuss this, that they would say that the new testament was written to heavenly bound individuals therefore has hardly any references to the paradise earth, but by having two distinct classes of worshippers jesus clearly showed some would be on earth and others in heaven ruling them. Plus I believe they would use the scriptures I quoted above.

    yes tey would use the scriptures you mentioned.
    They would use the illustration of the sheep cage. They would use some scriptures of the OT.

    They would use some logic also: "What is the use of an armageddon? if there is no earth later" and "Gods purpose has always been that men lived forever on earth (adam, god can't lie etc).

    Danny

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost
    One of the things that bothers me is the very little or almost non-existent way the paradise earth is talked about in the new testament. I've never heard a dub even think about that for one second.

    Well I did, and it troubled me like crazy even whilst 'serving' at bethel etc. I recall going in field service and being troubled at 'weilding' my "sword of the spirit" yet believing the paradise earth that I was promoting was a Watchtower hoax.

    My opinion on that hasn't changed.

  • Terry
    Terry

    The Watchtower mentality is about taking something established and erasing a bit of it only to replace the erased part with something different which is novel and unexpected. They then pass this novelty off as Truth.

    This is not unlike what the self-described "Apostle" Paul did to Judaism. He did what the Cuckoo bird does and laid his eggs in another bird's nest.

    The Watchtower has taken the well-established Christian doctrine of the Second Coming of Jesus and kept the "return" part. They erase the VISIBLE and replace it with the INVISIBLE.

    They take the reason for Christ's return and chop it up into little segments. Between each slice they insert a bit of their own Watchtower pseudo-history and pass it off as prophecy come true.

    Christ didn't return to rapture the true church to heaven and judge the wicked in the established way either. Christ returned to select Pastor Russell's bible students as his true religion and to appoint the Pastor as his Faithful and Wise Servant. Why? Not for Russell's accuracy nor for his humility; but, solely because Russell was pouring his personal fortune into propping up the William Miller expectations about a return! Russell was, in fact, wrong at every turn while insisting he was right and that it was "god's dates-not ours" which placed the blame on Jehovah and not himself.

    Rutherford continued the policy of chopping up established Christian ideas and inserting new twists. Rutherford and subsequent Watchtower presidents have had a gleeful time even dissecting their own established doctrines and erasing what is embarassing about them.

    Too many people responded to the door to door work and it became clear that more than 144,000 were being selected out of Earth's faithful to go to heaven. This clashed with the literal number of pre-ordained in scripture. Not to worry! The doctrine of the GREAT CROWD appeared to rescue the failure of interpretation.

    Where would these people end up spending their immortality? Why Earth, of course!

    Naturally this scenario has changed gradually too. Ideas about the Great Tribulation have come and gone over the decades and the concept of who the bible was written for has dramatically changed. The Great Crowd are outsiders who must rely upon the words and instructions of the elite now. Even the anointed aren't just one group either! There is the Faithful and Discreet Slave who feeds the Anointed and is clearly superior to them with only a few crumbs left over for the Great Crowd of stupid outsiders left over.

    The lion and the lamb lying down together use to be an actual lion and actual lamb. Now it is mere hyperbole and metaphor.

    They just can't help themselves! Change this and change that and move this around and erase that----I'd swear the Watchtower Society invented Photoshop and has been tricking out photos of scripture for the last century and a half!

    It does not matter to the Governing Body right now what is true and what isn't about scripture or established doctrine. They are concentrating full bore on mere OBEDIENCE to themselves. You can't question them or their doctrines. This takes the burden off making their feckless pronouncements and opinions seem plausible.

    The Internet is Public Enemy #1 and they've lost the battle of plausible deniability.

    T.

  • Rod P
    Rod P

    Terry,

    Aw shucks! Ya beat me to it agin.

    I couldn't have said it better myself.

    Rod P.

  • JosephMalik
    JosephMalik

    One of the things that bothers me is the very little or almost non-existent way the paradise earth is talked about in the new testament. I've never heard a dub even think about that for one second.

    Listener,

    That is because it is called the Kingdom of the Heavens or Kingdom of God for the most part in the New Testament, and not paradise earth. The way it is used in most texts this word Heaven describes the Government that will function here and not in some far away place unknown to us. So it is this word not Paradise earth that carries the message of a preferred place to live at such a future time.

    Joseph

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    I apologize if I'm changing the subject, but I've noticed how many JWs and ex-JWs use "New Testament" or "Old Testament" or "OT" or "NT", etc. As a JW, I never liked the cumbersome "Christian Greek Scriptures", etc. I wonder if others felt the same way....

  • Terry
    Terry

    The number one clue to MIND CONTROL is having your Lexicon tampered with by those in authority.

    The Watchtower minions never slack in efforts to put a false cue in where a regularly established word or phrase exists. Why?

    It serves to separate off those being controlled from the main flock.

    Each time you hear or read a mainstream word you are SNAPPED into a "something's wrong" mode because it doesn't jibe with your indoctrinations. It takes you out of the moment and causes you to search for your controlling authority. It lifts you away from possible refuting data.

    It works like a sunuvabitch!

    T.

  • Justin
    Justin

    The problem is that the NT writers themselves have differing viewpoints. Some are more gnostic in the sense that salvation to them means returning to our true home in heaven (eg., John 14:1-4) whereas those who are closer to the original Jewish apocalyptic think in terms of ages, with one age succeeding the other, and to them salvation means entering the new age. These ages succeed one another in this world, not some other. The WT has managed to harmonize these divergent views by teaching two salvations - one earthly and the other heavenly.

    In the annunciation to Mary, the angel Gabriel tells her regarding Jesus: "the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever." (Luke 1:32-33) The throne of David would be an earthly inheritance, but the WT cannot use this text because it has Jesus himself on the earth forever! At the ascension the apostles asked Jesus: "Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?" The kingdom restored to Israel would be earthly, and Jesus did not tell them that they had a wrong expectation, but merely replied: "It is not for you to know the times or the season, which the Father hath put in his own power." (Acts 1:6-7) The fulfillment would come at "the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." (Acts 3:21) This last verse was quoted frequently by the old Bible Students, but not so by the WT today.

    Jesus told the apostles: "Ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Matt. 19:28) Where would that be? On the earth. And then, contrasting Christ with the angels, the writer to the Hebrews states: "For not unto angels did he subject the inhabited earth to come, whereof we speak." (Heb. 2:5, ASV, margin) This is, there will be an inhabited earth to come. So you see, many of the texts in the NT which refer to a paradise earth (but not by name) cannot be used by the WT because they contradict its own teachings.

  • ithinkisee
    ithinkisee
    I apologize if I'm changing the subject, but I've noticed how many JWs and ex-JWs use "New Testament" or "Old Testament" or "OT" or "NT", etc. As a JW, I never liked the cumbersome "Christian Greek Scriptures", etc. I wonder if others felt the same way....

    Isn't this so they can still wield Old Testament authority by not calling it "Old"? This way they can still use laws from the Mosaic Law and people forget that it is the OLD testament - not the Hebre Scriptures. -ithinkisee

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