A thinking, reasoning person........ (page 3)

Rayvin

But you might want to tell him you're having a hard time loving him when he is being so unloving to his own flesh and blood. (1 JOHN 4:7-8, 20-21 "Beloved ones, let us continue loving one another, because love is from God, and everyone who loves has been born from God, and gains knowledge of God. He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. ... If anyone makes the statement: 'I love God,' and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also.")

I can imagine the father saying " but I DO love her. That is why I am doing this. Its for her own good. " The scripture doesn't explain what Love is. What the actions are that show love. You might want to add in the (1 Cor. 13:4-6) "Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up (5) does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep accout of the injury. (6) It does not rejoice over unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth. "

jaffacake

He said love for God has to be greater than love for your children.

It beggars belief that someone who claims to know the Bible, and who claims to be a Christian, can make such a statement.

When he refers to love for God, he really means love for the Organisation - JWs cannot separate the two.

He who does not love his daughter (ask him to look up unconditional) and claims to love God is a liar. Strong words, but not mine, based on Scriptures. Like all JWs it seems your husband is still stuck in the Old Covenant, which was fulfilled and negated by the New.

Rayvin is exactly right about Scriptural teaching from John: He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love. ... If anyone makes the statement: 'I love God,' and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For he who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot be loving God, whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from him, that the one who loves God should be loving his brother also.

jaffacake

It seems to me that your husband may lack courage. If the organisation made this a matter of personal conscience (which everything is according to proper scriptural teaching) then would he still shun? Would he think that's what God, who is love, requires?

If not, that proves it is not about God, but about whether he can stand up and refuse to obey men in suits.

Ask him to study all that Jesus Christ did and said, then ask what advice does he believe Jesus would give if he walked into your home tonight and you asked him for advice. What would Jesus say to you? Would he tell you to shun your daughter? Can your husband answer this honestly?

95stormfront

I think I would handle this by telling your JW husband that you will NOT, EVER, shun his daughter and that she is welcome in your home always. And then invite her to your home and tell her that. This may rile your husband, but you are an unbelieving mate and do not consider yourself in subjection to him, and you will be putting action to your words about how awful you believe shunning to be. It may also give him an "out" as far as being in contact with his daughter. Perhaps don't invite her for meals, at first, just a chat and a cup of tea. Let her "hang around". (All this assuming she does not live with the two of you already?) He probably won't eat with her and she will just be hurt by his not appearing at table. Shop with her, go to the beauty parlor with her, and come back to your place with parcels and new looks, for a snack.

I like that.......

I'd even take it to the point of racheting it up to the point that he'd be showing hiimself to be a total ass around her if he chooses to shun, and also try to instill the confidence in the girl that just because he's acting that way, that she shouldn't be ashamed nor intimidated to be around him. Go out of the way to make him feel as uncomfortable in his position as possible.

Too many times I've seen all over this board where everyone, myself included, make living the JW lifestyle too easy for our SO's. The do whatever the WT instructs them to with no thought as to the consequences of their behaivior or how it makes their spouse feel while we're put in the position of always trying to be understanding, walking on eggshells around them, even sometimes putting our desires on the back burner to please them.

I know I'm guilty of it......my wife, although she claims she wants to, does not work, does not have to work, and is not looking for work. And although she does "home" very well, it's still my dime she's using to pick up her couple of "friends" and go to the hall.

jgnat

I see his "thinking, reasoning" comment in a more positive light. He has managed to reconcile his despicable behavior by convincing himself he is doing the "right thing". He has had to sacrifice his natural feelings in order to accomplish these mental gymnastics. I think you can get through to him then, by reasoning to him from the scriptures. The prodigal son story is easy to understand and quite clear. Don't let him weasel out with other scriptures, WHAT IS THAT STORY REALLY SAYING?

Logansrun, I don't think anyone is suggesting that illogic is better. It is an insult rather to suggest that declaring shunning to be a cruel practice is somehow illogical and emotional.

jaffacake

But while the son was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion. He ran, threw his arms around his neck, and kissed him.

Your husband may respond to the Prodigal son parable by saying that repentance was required. But the father was filled with compassion whilst his son was still a long way off. He did not wait to see how his som felt about anything. His forgiveness was not CONDITIONAL on repentance.
No one has to be a Bible scholar to understand the simple New Testament message that unconditional love overrides any laws, rules or doctrines. This is the central teaching of the Bible, taken whole, rather in broken pieces.

Frannie Banannie

I sometimes wonder how he can still be one, when clearly he went againt his "love for Jehovah" by leaving his JW wife and kids and marrying me?!!??? And I will NEVER be a witness and he knows this. Isn't this like marrying a Satan worshipper, in the witness view?

Your hubby is what is known as a "Jehovah's Convenient Witness", aka a HYPOCRITE to thinking reasoning people....but you're not supposed to know that. And yes, you Devil's spawn, you! There has to be SOME reason to look down on you, since you haven't eaten their poison fruit.

Frannie

I quit!

He actually had written a letter of disassociation this Spring but I found it in the trash a month or so later.

Looks to me like he is struggling with the "truth". There may be an opening for you to discuss with him all the problems you see with the WT. He may come around yet.

Double Edge

I've never been a dub, but I wonder how "a thinking, reasoning person" could look at JW history and not question that perhaps the current JWs are the conterfeit of what was once a potent religious movement. After all, for the first 40 years of the original JWs (the Bible Students) they didn't shun, they celebrated holidays and birthdays and they were somewhat respected for their Bible scholarship - that all went out the window with the new regime. You should ask your husband why he isn't a Bible Student, after all, their Biblical teachings are much more persuasive to a thinking and reasoning person.

Double Edge

I've never been a dub, but I wonder how "a thinking, reasoning person" could look at JW history and not question that perhaps the current JWs are the conterfeit of what was once a potent religious movement. After all, for the first 40 years of the original JWs (the Bible Students) they didn't shun, they celebrated holidays and birthdays and they were somewhat respected for their Bible scholarship - that all went out the window with the new regime. You should ask your husband why he isn't a Bible Student, after all, their Biblical teachings are much more persuasive to a thinking and reasoning person.

A thinking, reasoning person........

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