My Bible Study

by slimboyfat 28 Replies latest jw friends

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    I am pretty sure defd isn't talking to me any more, but here are some other things to consider.

    • Perhaps faith in God is not dependent on being affiliated with any organization. This deserves further investigation.
    • Perhaps as the organization has been proven faulty in other things, their sweeping generalizations on all other churches is also flawed. Don't take their word on this, investigate for yourself.

    If these two ideas are pursued, an exiting JW now has a place to go. Is it right to remain with an organization, obviously flawed, just because it is assumed there is nothing better?

  • Sunspot
    Sunspot
    • Perhaps faith in God is not dependent on being affiliated with any organization. This deserves further investigation.
    • Perhaps as the organization has been proven faulty in other things, their sweeping generalizations on all other churches is also flawed. Don't take their word on this, investigate for yourself.

    If these two ideas are pursued, an exiting JW now has a place to go. Is it right to remain with an organization, obviously flawed, just because it is assumed there is nothing better?

    Jgnat,

    Even if dfed doesn't care to reply, there are plenty of onlookers that will see this. Thank you for a great post!

    Annie

  • THE GLADIATOR
    THE GLADIATOR

    Slimboyfat

    Six months is a long time to be inactive you need more exercise or

    you will end up as boyfat.

    Defd you sound a bit wacky, maybe you should go lay down.

    My money is on Santa Claus, he is such a snappy dresser.

    Who is this Jehovah guy? Does he give out presents?

  • Confession
    Confession

    Defd,

    Nice to get your reply. You ask,

    But what are you ACTUALLY saying to me? Leave the truth? Stop going to the Kingdom hall? What is your suggestion?

    What I was actually saying was simple: that all of us deserve to know all of the information. I was not saying that you should be compelled to come to the same conclusions I did.

    Your response surprised me just a bit. From some of the posts you'd left, I didn't imagine you'd be willing to admit that you found agreement in some of the things I'd written. If you are willing to keep your mind open to all of the information about the Watchtower Society, that's all any of us here can be glad for. Why? Because we feel that (in many cases) for long, long years (and even many generations) we have been misled and manipulated by the leadership of this organization.

    God gave you the Bible; he also gave you a mind. Jesus' providing the sin-atoning sacrifice for your sins gives you every right to exercise your Christian freedom. Your conclusions should, of course, be your own.

    If you conclude, as so many of us have, that the Watchtower Society can lay no claim to the position of "sole channel of communication from Almighty God," then I would hope you would not allow them to exercise authority over your mind and your life--nor over that of your family's. Some have decided to leave openly by disassociating themselves, some have "faded," and some have (for a few reasons) decided to stay inside.

    You see, if it's true that the Watchtower Society is not what it purports to be, then it's horribly, horribly wrong for them to keep saying that they are. And it's even more reprehensible for them to manipulate those over whom they preside, telling them what they are allowed to believe and think under penalty of disfellowshipping and shunning, ripping them from their own families and the only community of friends they've been allowed to have.

    Using God's Word as our guide, it has seemed to most of us that--given the foregoing--we are compelled to separate ourselves from such an organization. The Watchtower Society itself actually recommends this course...

    [Is This Life All There Is?, 1974, p. 46]

    Knowing these things, what will you do? It is obvious that the true God, who is himself “the God of truth” and who hates lies, will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach falsehood. (Psalm 31:5; Proverbs 6:16-19; Revelation 21:8) And, really, would you want to be even associated with a religion that had not been honest with you?

    I know what thoughts and feelings I experienced as I went through this process less than a year ago. At first you hold out great hope that there will be reform within the organization. Then you start asking, "Where then shall we go?" as if leaving the Watchtower Society means leaving God or Christianity itself. It's hard to see yourself doing this, I know. But, despite what they taught us, I have found many, many kind, loving, wonderful Christian human beings not affiliated with them. I've found that my relationships with them can be even stronger given that they are not under the thumb of an oppressive organization that restricts their thoughts and expressions--and that they will be my friends despite the protests of any group of men who might have them shun me.

    Getting out of the organization is not easy; I'm not fully out myself. But you can rest assured that many, many other righteous people have gone before in this exodus--and that you will have the full help and support of thousands of caring persons from around the globe.

    If you conclude that there is still some reason to remain affiliated with the Watchtower Society, I would hope that you would at least retain your ability to use your mind yourself--rather than letting them have the strong control over it they think they've the right to have. I would also hope you would refuse to treat others who've come to differing conclusions in the way they would have you treat them.

    My love and best wishes to you.

  • Honesty
    Honesty
    I am pretty sure defd isn't talking to me any more, but here are some other things to consider.
    • Perhaps faith in God is not dependent on being affiliated with any organization. This deserves further investigation.
    • Perhaps as the organization has been proven faulty in other things, their sweeping generalizations on all other churches is also flawed. Don't take their word on this, investigate for yourself.

    If these two ideas are pursued, an exiting JW now has a place to go. Is it right to remain with an organization, obviously flawed, just because it is assumed there is nothing better?

    Although defd is shunning me, too I do sincerely hope that he will at least entertain the idea that the WTBTS has not been truthful in their descriptions and generalisations of other churches. Jesus said that His followers would be recognised by the love they showed among themselves. He also said that when He separated the sheep and the goats that those who had fed, clothed and nursed His brothers will be blessed. Those who were doing such things did not know that they were doing this to Jesus' brothers because they did not know that they were Jesus' brothers when they fed, clothed and nursed them. Jesus taught that His followers to have love for all other humans, not just Jews or those who shared the same faith in Him. Jesus demonstrated His love for all of mankind. It wasn't conditional on their beliefs, race, economic or social position, language or geographic location. *** Rbi8 Matthew 25:31-40 ***
    31 “When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
    34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, YOU who have been blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for YOU from the founding of the world. 35 For I became hungry and YOU gave me something to eat; I got thirsty and YOU gave me something to drink. I was a stranger and YOU received me hospitably; 36 naked, and YOU clothed me. I fell sick and YOU looked after me. I was in prison and YOU came to me.’ 37 Then the righteous ones will answer him with the words, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty, and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and receive you hospitably, or naked, and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to you?’ 40 And in reply the king will say to them, ‘Truly I say to YOU, To the extent that YOU did it to one of the least of these my brothers, YOU did it to me. *** Rbi8 John 13:33-35 ***
    34 I am giving YOU a new commandment, that YOU love one another; just as I have loved YOU, that YOU also love one another. 35 By this all will know that YOU are my disciples, if YOU have love among yourselves.” In this regard, the JW religion is sadly lacking. They have been mislead by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses into believing that they should only show love to those who share their religion. *** Rbi8 Matthew 5:43-48 ***
    43 “YOU heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; 45 that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. 46 For if YOU love those loving YOU, what reward do YOU have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? 47 And if YOU greet YOUR brothers only, what extraordinary thing are YOU doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? 48 YOU must accordingly be perfect, as YOUR heavenly Father is perfect.

  • jaffacake
    jaffacake
    "We need to examine, not only what we personally believe, but also what is taught by any religious organization with which we may be associated. Are its teachings in full harmony with God's Word, or are they based on the traditions of men? If we are lovers of the truth, there is nothing to fear from such an examination."

    Confession - thanks again for your wisdom and experience, your posts will be added to my collection for discussion with beloved JWs.

    Defd - you refer to the organisation as 'the truth', have you ever asked yourself why you call it that? You also seem to equate the JW organisation with Jehovah God & Christ. You appear to refer to the organisation where otherw would refer to God & Christ. I know you are sincere and always like to read your opinions. I think we can all learn from guys like Confession, who are as sincere, and also wise.

    SBF - All the best with your studies. Its a pity you are not studying the 'knowledge' book. I have a copy, together with copies of many original sources the book quotes from. Why is it full of falsehoods, misquotes and deliberately misleading information? Perhaps because they think no one will check the numerous sources for accuracy!

  • jaffacake
    jaffacake

    Defd, We need to find out whether JWs love of truth exceeds their love of unity: (2 Thessalonians 2:10-11) 10 and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved. 11 So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie,... Have you studied the transcripts of the Walsh case trial in Scotland, at which Fred Franz and Hayden Covington gave evidence under oath? :- Q. It was promulgated as a matter which must [have been] believed by all members of Jehovah's Witnesses that the Lord's second coming took place in 1874...? A. It was a false statement or an erroneous statement in fulfillment of a prophecy that was false or erroneous. Q. And that had to believed by the whole of Jehovah's Witnesses? A. Yes, because you must understand we must have unity... Q. Back to the point now. A false prophecy was promulgated? A. I agree to that. Q. It had to be accepted by Jehovah's Witnesses? A. That is correct. Q. If a member of Jehovah's Witnesses took the view himself that that prophecy was wrong and said so, he would be disfellowshiped? A. Yes...our purpose is to have unity. Q. Unity at all costs? A. Unity at all costs... Q. A unity based on an enforced acceptance of false prophecy? A. That is conceded to be true.

  • Es
    Es

    I guess try and remember why you became inactive in the first place, was it you lost your faith and started to disbelief, if thats the case then do you feel you have changed and even have they changed? wish you all the best es

  • luna2
    luna2
    I said my goals were to do more housework and to get on better with my family

    LMAO! I love it, slimboy! I'm sure your family will like those goals too. I'm sure that's not what your study conductor was looking for at all...Hehehehe!!

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