1 Cor. 13:8

by sunshine2 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  LittleToe

  How does that fit within the context of verse 10?

  I'll never forget the first time a Pentecostal boy challenged me with that one, when I was a JW upholding a cessationist viewpoint.

  HR:

  Jesus made it perfectly clear that he was the last prophet, and that anyone coming after him, claiming to be a prophet, would be a false prophet

  An interesting viewpoint. Would you mind pointing me in the direction of where you get that idea from? I've not heard it before. My understanding was that Paul and others talked of doing exactly that
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  sunshine2

  In my view, the core message of the NT is A) Love, and B) Judgement belongs to God. Everything else should be read in the light of these two things

  that's exactly true.....and the Bible talk about unconditional love, just as Jesus had. And you do not get that from the JW's....and judging belongs to God, and yet this is what JW's do all the time. They even speak of bad association within the congregation.....how bad is that?
• 

  Hellrider

  
  LT:

  An interesting viewpoint. Would you mind pointing me in the direction of where you get that idea from? I've not heard it before.My understanding was that Paul and others talked of doing exactly that

  I`m not sure exactly which passages of Pauls letters you are referring to. I see Jesus as the last prophet (before his next coming) for the following reasons, some of which (I assume) I have as leftover-teachings from the JWs:

  - A prophet is someone who has the ability to tell the future, what is to come, what are God plans for the future. This is evident both by the OT and the gospels. The writers of the OT (or at least some of them) were considered prophets: They foretold what was to come, they claimed there would come a Messiah, they wrote down what God said to mankind, etc. So a prophet, to be able to do this, he has to have some divine guiding/ divine intervention. God is in direct contact with the prophet! - one way or the other.

  And so, here comes my personal thoughts about this...(and I`m not sure if this was ever part of JW-doctrine, I left at a young age). Being told by God what is about to happen/hearing Gods voice, etc, must be considered a miracle. And only Jesus could perform miracles, with Gods help. The JWs teach themselves that if you were to see anything "supernatural", it would be something from the demons, not from God. Although they do have some doubletalk here, for example, you can pray for something, or call out Gods name when in danger, and he might help you, but their basic belief is that Jesus was the last man to perform miracles. And in my view, (accurate/correct) prophecying (in the sense that God guides you/talks to you) is miraculous. And no man can perform miracles, since the days of Jesus, but demons can certainly do things that might seem miraculous/prophetical.

  Also, Jesus warned a lot about false prophets to come:

  Matthew 7.15: Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.
  
  Matthew 24.11: and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.

  Matthew 24.24: For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible

  Mark 13.22: For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.
  
  Luke 6.26: Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for that is how their fathers treated the false prophets.
  
  2.Peter 2.1: But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.
  
  1 John 4.1: Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

  JWs teach that Jesus was the last prophet, and on this point, I think they`re right. (Of course, he was a lot more than a prophet, but that`s besides the point)
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  LittleToe

  
  I'll happily stand corrected, but my understanding is that the WTS promotes the idea that all those things were done by God's spirit, anyhow. To that end, even Paul and others prophesied (see John's "Revelation", as a prpphetic vision). Jesus comments relate to the false prophets that would come in the last days, but doesn't rule out the possibility of true prophets (which they at one time claimed to be).

  I'm not aware of any "Christian" group that promotes the idea that a "true" prophet is (or has ever been) such by his or her own efforts.

  I've just got my pedantic head on, tonight, don't worry about it. Normal service shall be resumed in the morning
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  MerryMagdalene

  Hope I'm not intruding...

  The chapter before and the chapter after 1 Corinthians 13 make mention of the various gifts of spirit given to the members of Christ's "body". These include the gifts of healing and prophesy. 14:1 says (NWT) "Pursue love, yet keep zealously seeking the spiritual gifts, but preferably that you may prophesy."

  I understand 13:10 to mean that when that which is complete arrives (complete healing and complete fulfillment of prophesy) there will no longer be any need for limited/partial healings and limited/partial fulfillments of prophesy.

  Yes? No?

  ~Merry
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  LittleToe

  As a clearer and less convoluted interpretation, it works for me
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  heathen

  This is one of those things the WTBTS claims they are in some publications but then will deny their claim in others . I think what the passage of 1corinthians is saying is that the gift of prophesy would be done away with when the kingdom arrived . It's like saying when you have perfect faith that you will no longer need these gifts . There's also acts 2:17 which talks about the end time prophesying that takes place . The gift of prophesy was given to build up the congregations faith and the apostle paul said of all the gifts to pray for was the gift of prophesy which was the greatest gift of the spirit . I notice alot of churches believe that speaking in toungues around other believers is spirit directed but the bible says that was a gift to communicate with unbelievers in attempts to convert them .Obviously so you could talk to people about the kingdom in their own language .
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  peacefulpete

  An interesting article that brings together some of the argumnets that chapter 13 is an interpolation:Catholic Biblical Quarterly, The: Is First Corinthians 13 a non ...
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  Midget-Sasquatch

  [edited to add - forgive me for my cynicism and bitterness in this post...I actually went to JW meeting tonight and am in a mood]
  

  Well it makes sense that those verses could have been inserted later on to suit the purposes of those trying to gain the rank and file. And I'd say it was a pretty rational move too.

  Movements stressing the Paraclete and prophesying would be challenges to the proto-orthodox authority. Imagine if a whole bunch of dubs tried to claim they were receiving new light? But with this notion, the church leaders could say that any dissenting views that came from those caliming "spirit direction" were just gibberish/uninspired.
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  hmike

  The gift of prophecy continued at least into the book of Acts.

  Dispensationalists maintain that this gift as something supernatural was done away with at the arrival of the "perfect"--the New Testament. The text does not demand this interpretation.