by Jeannine 31 Replies latest jw experiences
the little old Fundamentalist lady
That the Watchtower would dare to use the term "little old Fundamentalist lady" is just... just... well, it makes me wanna go bury some bones just to fool somebody.
Dave of the "putting the FUN back into Fundamentalism" class
What makes me sick when the WTS bashes the different types of radioactive dating methods is that their arguments against it show that they do not understand how it works.
Such as: "The levels of atmospheric carbon 14 vary widely from one geological period to another."
With C14 dating it doesn't matter how much or little was absorbed by the animal during its life. The ratio of C14 to decay products in a sample will be the same after 10, 000 years, whether the animal incorporated only a few 1000ths of a gram or ten tonnes during its life.. Having (in their mind) discredited c14 dating they just issue a blanket statement about other types of dating and hope the first negative will stick. (As long as you don't do research for yourself.)
Remember that the articles have mainly been written by ignorant farm boys who learned nothing after grade school.
I realised this when I read an item in "Asleep!" where it said that 'some have claimed that time runs slower approaching the speed of light.'
Since this has been proved, the writer's obvious inability to comprehend made him feel entitled to trumpet this unqualified observation on the findings of real scientists.
HB (of the "it's turtles all the way down Mr Einstein" class)
Thanks everyone for such quick responses. So, I guess JWs would just talk themselves around the Dinasaur issue huh? Another question: If Dinasaurs where here before and/or at the time of the Great Flood, then why didn't Noah bring them on his arc? Of course, the Dinos wouldn't fit on the arc, but what would the JW explaination be? Didn't God say to Noah: take "all" living things on the arc?
I was actually told by an elder that dinosaur bones were placed in the ground by Satan to discredit the Bible
I was told the same thing by my mother. So I asked why then is that little dinoasur in the cover of my green NWT. My mom said be quiet and pay attention to the meeting.
In every green bible I had I always drew a word bubble coming out of his mouth with the words "HELP!"
Lisa
Jeannine,
From the above articles the WT rather suggests that dinos were extinct before the Flood, even before the creation of man...
Edit: a 1973 Watchtower suggested that they might have been still around at the Flood, but this apparently was dropped 10 years later:
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When did God create dinosaurs, and when did they become extinct?—U.S.A.The Bible does not provide specific answers to this question. According to the Genesis account, animals were created during the fifth and sixth creative periods or ‘days.’ If the Hebrew expression translated "great sea monsters" [Hebrew, tan·ni·nim´] includes dinosaurs, which often inhabited swampy, watery areas, this would mean that dinosaurs were created on the fifth "day." (Gen. 1:21) We do not know whether they continued to exist until man was created (toward the close of the sixth "day"). At the very latest it seems likely that they must have disappeared off the earth at the time of the flood of Noah’s day. Dinosaurs were reptiles, and some kinds of dinosaurs bear strong resemblance structurally and otherwise to lizards (sauros is, in fact, the Greek word for "lizard"; saura in Leviticus 11:29, LXX). Not all types of dinosaurs were of such gigantic size. Hence, even if they had survived till the Flood, this would not have required taking pairs of the mammoth varieties into the ark. Other smaller members of the particular family or "kind" to which these belonged would have sufficed to fulfill the divine command.—Gen. 6:19, 20; 7:14.
Some of the older translations of the Bible at times use the word "dragons" to translate the Hebrew tan·ni·nim´ ("sea monsters," NW). (Ps. 74:13; 148:7; Isa. 27:1, Authorized Version) The term "dragon" (Greek, dra´kon) is found in the Christian Greek Scriptures. It has been suggested as possible that, rather than having a purely mythical source, this expression may originally have been applied to enormous creatures such as the dinosaurs, taking on mythical tones only after these mammoth creatures had long disappeared. Interestingly, many of the mythical depictions of the "dragon" strongly resemble certain types within the family of huge reptilian creatures that includes the dinosaur.
From my understanding and research, a bone or other substance can fossilize with the right conditions within a years time. I have some friends who worked at a local university that submitted bones to a lab for C-14 dating. The result was that the bone was over 14,000 years old. Other samples were sent to this facilit and others. All were dated to several hundred to several thousand years. The real kicker? These bones were all from animals who were recently killed. Nothing was done to the bone in a chemical way to influence the results. So, although C-14 has its place, it is evident that there are some major flaws.
As a side note, I have been reading many of the "other" books of the Bible. I find this verse VERY interesting:
Enoch Book 2[Chapter 1]
1_1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters.
1_2 And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another:
1_3 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.'
1_4 And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.'
1_5 And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.'
1_6 Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.
1_7 And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.
1_8 And these are the names of their leaders:
1_9 Samlazaz, their leader,Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaq1el, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens.
[Chapter 2]
2_1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one,
2_2 And they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them,
2_3 And they taught them charms and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants.
2_4 And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells:
2_5 Who consumed all the acquisitions of men.
2_6 And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind.
2_7 And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, 2_8 And to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood.
2_9 Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.
Book of Jubilees [Chapter 5]
1 and they bare unto them sons and they were Giants.
2 And lawlessness increased on the earth and all flesh corrupted its way, alike men and cattle and beasts and birds and everything that walks on the earth -all of them corrupted their ways and their orders, and they began to devour each other, and lawlessness increased on the earth and every imagination of the thoughts of all men (was) thus evil continually.
3 And God looked upon the earth, and behold it was corrupt, and all flesh had corrupted its orders, and all that were upon the earth had wrought all manner of evil before His eyes.
The Book of Jasher [Chapter 4:18] says," And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals.
Makes you wonder if the Fallen Angels had a hand in trying to "create" their own creatures (both man - Nephilim and animal) as a way telling Jehovah that they could be gods as well. (Moses and Aaron story - turning a rod to a snake, etc.)
They conveniently ignore the fossil record for the most part, but since they cant deny the existence of dinosaurs, the best justification I have heard from the dubs is that jehovah put the dinosaurs on the earth to "soften" up the ground for the coming of man....I kid you not.....oh the mental gymnastics they go through!
Ok, so the dinasours, according to JW material, were extinct before the flood. That makes more sense than Noah trying to squeeze a T-Rex into the Arc. But, I thought the bible said that God created man....then he created animals. I am sorry that I can't quote Genisis, and I may even be wrong with the steps to creation. If so, someone please correct me. If I am correct, then how can the Dinasours (animals) be in existence after man and before the flood without whatever killed the Dinasaurs before the Flood killing man too? If Dinasaurs existed prior to man, doesn't that make the Bible wrong? Am I confused or is there something illogical here? I am no Bible expert so throw whatever criticism you can muster up.
Yes, it makes absolutely no logical sense at all. I remember asking my parents about this when I was a kid, and the best they could come up with was "well god used the dinosaurs to till the earth before man was created", OK, so why no mention in the bible? errrrrrrrr, well,,,,,,god didnt think it was important so he didnt write about them....of course if they say the dinosaurs walked the earth with man, they need to answer the question, why didnt noah save them as well? and on and on it goes!
Some editions of My Book of Bible Stories depicted a Tyrannosaurus Rex drowning in the Flood. Other versions do not. I think this might be evidence that they haven't thought through the issue well enough, or changed the art to reflect a change of position.
sinis....As for 1 Enoch, bear in mind the motive for such a story is purely exegetical -- to explain why all the seemingly innocent animals had to die in the Flood for the sins of humanity. The rationalization is that the animals were not so innocent. This same approach was taken by the rabbis in their mishnaic interpretations of Genesis. The Enochic concept of eating (= eating ravenously and eating people), drinking (= drinking blood), and marriage (= intermarriage between angels and women) as sinister activities before the Flood (1 Enoch 7:1-6) may also be echoed in Luke 17:26-27.
