Watchtower PR Statement 8-7-01

by silentlambs 63 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  waiting

  Hello Robdar

  Nice to meet you & welcome to our forum.

  I do not know of a single accusation of child molestation that wasn't taken seriously by the elders in my former congregation. I know that I was not a memeber of the disciplinary committees or held any kind of position of authority within the congregation due to being female.

  I'm a 30 year jw inactive woman - so I know exactly your position within the KH. I've bolded it within your quote. You would have only known of situations which "leaked out." If the case was handled as the WTBTS has written them to be handled - you would never know.

  You might even have gone out in service with your children with a man/woman who confessed & apologized for raping all their children and children at the KH for decades - and nothing further was done because he was repentant in the elders' unschooled and untrained opinions. And it's pretty well recognized that being sorry doesn't do anything to stop a strong, criminal compulsion to rape/molest children.

  However, I do know, because people talk, that when cases like this arose, the elders jumped on it. They investigated and disfellowshipped those involved-- up to and including members of the annointed class.

  Perhaps these situations were jumped on by the elders because people were already talking to each other about them? Keep the congregation's reputation clean and all that? Not upbuilding for the brothers and sisters to learn of this? That particular one was used on me to *help* me keep quiet.

  Hey MadAp

  I avoided specifying my qualifications in the legal profession because there are none. I just like reading and thinking. Such a freedom to do these and then to discuss - particularily after a 30 year stint as a female jw.

  I understand the level of responsibility for the mother. I am a mother, my daughter was sexually abused by a MS, and the elders refused to even talk to him - not one word, even though his adult daughter wrote a letter to them outlining years of incest - they refused to talk to him about those rapes also. The PO told me that they did call the WTBTS for instructions of handling this rapist. I guess the handling was not to report him nor discuss it with him. He remained a brother in good standing for many more years.

  I did go to the police - when I found out 10 yrs later, but my daughter refused to talk to them. Nothing could be done on that front.

  However, in the Berry Case - the elders broke the law in respect to reporting the child abuser. In my case, there was no law at that time. Interesting difference.

  I've enjoyed the discussion between you and Hawk. There are quite a few posters here capable of long, informative, discussions. The trick is to find them, engage in an interesting topic, and politely go at it.

  I don't know how long you've been out of the Org, but jw's in general aren't taught how to indepth discuss, let alone argue, without walking away. It's an art form I'm just beginning to learn.

  Oh, and I've learned new curse words and how to sling my exisitng ones together in new and creative ways. Cool, eh?

  waiting
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  Robdar

  Hello Waiting, thank you for your welcome.

  I agree that I wasn't privy to certain cases and information. But my father was on these committees and I know that he never would have put up with this kind of thing. The ones that I did find out about were handled appropriately. I know that it isn't very popular on this site to speak up in defense of the elders and I'm sorry that so many have had bad experiences. But not all elders are sneaky, manipulative, children haters. Some care about their flock very much. Not all should be considered evil just because others are. Like any organization, religious or otherwise, there are bad and there are good people. Unfortunately, bad news travels more quickly and nobody likes to pass along good rumors.

  You make valid points, and I appreciate your response. I look forward to your future postings.

  A Guppy Love,
  Robdar
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  Pork Chop

  Hey Richie, I've never heard of 'anyone' being disfellowshipped because they went to the police. I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has ever heard of such a thing. I suspect not.
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  Anchor

  : Like any organization, religious or otherwise, there are bad and there are good people.

  : Unfortunately, bad news travels more quickly and nobody likes to pass along good rumors.

  Robdar, you miss the point. What you say is obvious; we know that.

  The argument we have is against Watchtower policy. Child molestation needs to be lifted out of the arena of judicial proceedings. Period. No one is talking about rumor, we are speaking of facts. Welcome, but read the threads and become informed.

  Haven't you folks learned of cases in which molested ones were DFd because they did not scream? Was foolishly treated as rape.

  Anchor
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  waiting

  Hello Rodbar,

  I've met and have had fine friends who were elders. Doyle Coonrod in Frankfort, IN, was an outstanding elder. Nothing distinguished about him - just a fine, good, man - who was a faithful friend also.

  However, the broad paintstroke of black/white is not appropriate here, and many bad judgements/mistakes/crimes have been made by elders - and the WTBTS knew of some of them.

  I have no doubt that what you say about your father is true - but that doesn't excuse/accuse the elder standing next to him. Nor does it excuse the WTBTS who trains them all - and then publicly says they are "untrained volunteers" (lawyer for WTBTS to newspapers.)

  Hey Anchor

  Haven't you folks learned of cases in which molested ones were DFd because they did not scream? Was foolishly treated as rape.

  No, I've not learned of such cases - where would I find one specifically?

  waiting
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  Robdar

  Hello Waiting:

  Thank you for your response. You stated:

  "However, the broad paintstroke of black/white is not appropriate here, and many bad judgements/mistakes/crimes have been made by elders - and the WTBTS knew of some of them."

  I agree totally. Broad paintstroke is not appropriate here. But that is exactly what I see happening on this site.

  Don't forget: Many good judgements/loving concerns/and helpful deeds have also been made by the elders--and many of you knew of some of them-- Even though you've tried your best to forget them. Why condemn most elders because of a bad few? That is broad paintstroke at its worse.

  I agree that something must be done to end the madness and tyranny of the WTBTS. But all I see on this site are people willing to cry and complain but unwilling to get off their butts and do something about what is going on. Talk is cheap. Anger indulgent.

  If any of you honestly knew of crimes, misdemeanors and what-nots committed by the elders (obviously many of you did according to your posts) and did nothing about it, then YOU ARE AS GUILTY AS THEY. More so--if you ask me. Getting angry now that you are out and have nothing to fear does not assuage you of your guilt.

  There, I've thrown down the gauntlet. Fire away. I probably won't respond to your posts, but by all means indulge yourself.

  "Ha'Shem hu ha'Elokim"
  Robdar
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  Pathofthorns

  If any of you honestly knew of crimes, misdemeanors and what-nots committed by the elders (obviously many of you did according to your posts) and did nothing about it, then YOU ARE AS GUILTY AS THEY. More so--if you ask me. Getting angry now that you are out and have nothing to fear does not assuage you of your guilt.

  I don't think people are upset so much at the elders themselves as much as they are at the policies from the WTS that control and influence their actions.

  No one acts of their own volition in this organization. Everything is a reflex to how we are indoctrinated to act. If the Society were to properly inform and educate their elders and their members, then at least in this area there would be alot less heartache.

  There also exists no effective means of reporting and dealing with renegade elders, no effective means of a publisher proving what was said and done behind closed doors in judicial committees. Circuit overseers are generally suspicious of claims made by publishers, and they are often viewed as troublemakers. Renegade elders tend to cause problems for a long time before someone finally deals with them.

  Path
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  hawkaw

  Welcome Robdar,

  ummm... you would be surprised what some posters are doing to support the cause. If you knew what I have done and what I am in the process of doing, you might have to pick your jaw off the floor. A few, such as waiting know. And when necessary I post about it here. You are right people should report serious violations of the law. The big problem I find is convincing people there really is a problem with this "innocent little church". Thus, when you accuse sometimes nothing is done.

  This board is a great place to learn. And as such anyone who contributes here is in my humble opinion alerting and helping people and that makes this board worth its weight in gold.

  hawk (proud to be part of http://www.ajwrb.org
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  waiting

  Hello Robdar,

  But all I see on this site are people willing to cry and complain but unwilling to get off their butts and do something about what is going on. Talk is cheap. Anger indulgent.

  What would you suggest we do? This is a discussion forum - a place to talk. Anger can be indulgent - it can be very theraputic also. Ask any therapist. My therapist said "Anger is a great motivator." I agree.

  If any of you honestly knew of crimes, misdemeanors and what-nots committed by the elders (obviously many of you did according to your posts) and did nothing about it, then YOU ARE AS GUILTY AS THEY. More so--if you ask me. Getting angry now that you are out and have nothing to fear does not assuage you of your guilt.

  I know of a crime, I reported it to the elders, and then I reported it to the police, and then I wrote the WTBTS, and then I heatedly discussed it with the next three CO's who were assigned to our congregation. Then I gave up.

  Many crimes have little provable evidence - particularily child molestation - and particularily when the child speaks up a decade or two later.

  An ethical crime (such as the elders lying in a committee meeting) is most likely an unprovable crime. Should we be silent - like the WTBTS tells us - for the good of the congregation's reputation? So we won't stumble our brothers and sisters? I don't think so.....all that does is make it possible for the unethical behavior to continue.

  There, I've thrown down the gauntlet. Fire away. I probably won't respond to your posts, but by all means indulge yourself.

  
  So, by my responding to your post politely - I'm indulging myself? But your responding to my post is - throwing down the guantlet? I don't think so. It's call discussing. Something unique to this forum, when it happens. Talking back and forth - agreeing and disagreeing and trying not to get mad and saying "probably won't respond to your posts."

  I think you're as mature as I am, if not as old. If you are, then we can discuss this, pros and cons. Can't properly discuss if you won't respond, eh? Watcha say?
  
  waiting
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  waiting

  Howdy again, Robdar,

  Getting angry now that you are out and have nothing to fear does not assuage you of your guilt. - Robdar

  When we were in the Organization, what did we have to fear?

  waiting