Surely it's an inspirational if not influential collection of books.
Is the bible inspired?
by jwfacts 32 Replies latest watchtower bible
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A Paduan
I am trying to determine if it can be proved that the bible is inspired, and was wondering if most people here believe it is or is not. I am writing a document on proof of inspiration, but it has ended up more of an article that shows the bible can not be proven to be inspired.
There are many language oddities associated with jwism, and fundamentalism in general. Considering your question -
- how were the writers inspired, or was it simply a work of documentation ?
- does it inspire you, and how so - what do you identify in it - do you identify with it ?
What are you asking - are you asking whether the words are living to me ? Yes. That's just me.
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jwfacts
By inspired i mean did God cause each word to be penned, that is, the fundamentalist view.
I agree that the bible can inspire people, just as can the Koran or the words of Buddha. But I do have an issue with people stating everyone that does not accept Jesus as their saviour is worthy of either eternal torture in hell, or eternal destruction at Armageddon. If that is the case, the bible should be able to be proven quite simply to be perfect and from God himself. -
DannyBloem
Leolaia makes some valuable comments in this thread.
The question is what you define as inspired.
As the JW's view it, written by god, using man, like a boss using a sexytary, then there can only be one answer: NO
if it would be like that what would you expect:
- definite insight in things not known at the time
- truths and morality laws unchanging with time
- proof that it was written by God.
- no errors and faultsThjis is not what we see. We see the opposite
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trevor
Jwfacts
The bible is a heavily rewritten and manipulated book. A collection of folk stories, opinions, guesswork and reports, with a few dreams thrown in to round it off and create a bit of surrealistic drama. It has it’s place among ancient books but why blame God for it‘s contents.
Every living thing is inspired, real and alive in the here and now, at this moment. Within all living things are the secrets of life. The life force has chosen to express itself through them.
But if you really must look to the bible for answers then you will need someone to decode it for you. Enter the erstwhile, mind boggling, unfathomable and inspired, expert on matters Biblical - JCanon
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hibiscusfire
Daunt:
we don't know what the spiritual world is
Why don't you find out?
hibe
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JCanon
Hi Trevor
But if you really must look to the bible for answers then you will need someone to decode it for you. Enter the erstwhile, mind boggling, unfathomable and inspired, expert on matters Biblical - JCanon
You know, in a way on this topic, its more fun to talk to non-believers than believers since they tend to be more objective and "logical"!!!
Thus I like to point out the prophecies which come true or "coincidences" of the Bible mixed with modern events.
Take for instance the prophecy that the Jews would be restored to their homeland after two thirds of them would be exterminated.
8 “And it must occur in all the land,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “[that] two parts in it are what will be cut off [and] expire; and as for the third [part], it will be left remaining in it. 9 And I shall certainly bring the third [part] through the fire; and I shall actually refine them as in the refining of silver, and examine them as in the examining of gold. It, for its part, will call upon my name, and I, for my part, will answer it. I will say, ‘It is my people,’ and it, in its turn, will say, ‘Jehovah is my God.’”
Two-thirds of the Jews died in the Holocaust, a third was brought through the fire and restored to Palestine. This prophecy is about the Holocaust happening just before the Jews are restored to their homeland.
THE JUBILEE: One of my favorites. The Jewish jubilee marks major events in Jewish history when they are freed from slavery are regain their homeland. The Exodus was in 1386BCE, which is 19 jubilees from 455BCE, the time the Jews returned home from Babylonian exile. But the 50th jubilee from 455BCE is 1947! I find that profoundly interesting that this final return to their homeland falls on a jubilee year. Is that a coincidence that there is a connection between 1947 and 455BCE? Maybe. Maybe not. But it it adds credibility to that concept. And thus credibility to the Bible.
Or the prophecy about the Beast with four wings as a prophecy that at one point one nation or coalition would be the absolute military superpower with no close rivals. That is precisely the situation we have now! One great superpower! The Bible prophesied it 2000 years ago and it is now happening.
As as me having the goods on how to interpret the Bible, I'm not the only one. But understanding of the secrets of the Bible was prophesied to be revealed in our day... Daniel 12:3
3 “And the ones having insight will shine like the brightness of the expanse; and those who are bringing the many to righteousness, like the stars to time indefinite, even forever."
So yes, I'm one of those "ones having insight" that was prophesied. So this is a good time, if you want to see the Bible's prophesies worked out to seek that knowledge because it is out there now being revealed.
For instance, I'm not the only one who marked 1947 and the end of the 1290 days! This seems to be rather obvious to others as well...
http://www.prophecycorner.com/agee/procon206.html
My outgoing email
From Marilyn AgeeOR
It cannot surely be coincidence that from the actual date when that statement was made by President Reagan to the day of the Feast of Trumpets in 1988 was exactly 280 days, the period of human gestation which as we know, ends with the woman's travail. Thus we can be assured that we are now in that final period of travail.
1917 + 30 (1290 - 1260) + 45 (1335 - 1290) = 1992.
Dec. 1917, or Israel's 1918 + 30 + 45 = late Sept. 1992 to late Sept. 1993. (Feast of Trumpets date).
OR
http://www.triumphpro.com/1260,1290,1335_3.htm
A "Day for a Year" -- the DUALITY of
Prophecy
According to this vital key to understanding many Biblical prophecies, a "day" in the prophetic scenario actually equals a YEAR in actual fulfillment!
Is there a "day for a year" revelation of this vital prophecy of Daniel 12? The answer is an astounding YES!
Isaac Newton, a faithful and zealous student of the Scriptures, as well as the man who discovered the law of gravity, the laws of motion, and laws of optics, in 1697 gave a lecture at Cambridge which was published by the title "The Observations on Apocalypse of the Prophet Daniel and Saint John." In the tenth and twelfth chapters of Daniel, he discusses the "last days," the coming of the Messiah, and the world events that transpire to bring about Israel's final glory. In this context, three periods of days are revealed to Daniel -- 1260, 1290, and 1335. Newton referred to them as "the days of 1260," "the days of 1290," and "the days of 1335." According to Isaac Newton, "the days of 1260" refer to a time when a world kingdom or power would give occasion to bring about the return of the Jews to their promised land. Newton wrote:
"When, at some future time, you see a major world power give occasion to the return
of the Jews to their land, write by that date, 1260. All subsequent events and times
will be pivotal to that occasion."
If we use this approach, it was on November 3, 1917, when the world's most prominent power of that time, the British Empire, issued the Balfour Declaration, permitting the Jews to go home to their original home-land in Judea. This was shortly after British General Allenby defeated the Turks in the Middle East and conquered Jerusalem, putting an end to the world's longest surviving empire of that time -- the Ottoman Empire of Turkey.
However, the crisis of World War II prompted many more Jews to flee and emigrate to Palestine, and the new British leadership was negative to Jewish immigration. Nevertheless, 30 years after the Balfour Declaration, in 1947-48, the United Nations passed a resolution establishing a Jewish homeland or nation in Palestine -- and in May 1948 Israel once again became a literal nation, although it was forced to defend its newfound frontiers from massed Arab armies which immediately attacked on all fronts!
If 1917 was the 1260 years, then the 1290 years would have been 30 years later -- the year 1947-48! This would mean that the 1335 years would be an additional 45 years later -- or 1992-93!
But what about the date that the 1260 days or "years" begins? Is that not also significant? If we count backward from 1917 A.D., 1260 years, we come to the year 658 A.D. What happened that year that would be significant to the Jews?
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kazar
Trevor, you are concise and brilliant, as usual.
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Qcmbr
When scripture is given by a prophet it is inspired. When it is retranslated and sometimes wilfully mistranslated (there are strong bias towars an interpretation that fits your belief) we then get a history somewhat removed from the original.
The critical issue here (if I may be so bold) is not so much 'is the bible inspired?' but are you inspired when you read it? Even if you had the most inspired piece of verbatum text ,a perfect recording of deity it would still mean naff all to the reader who wanted to build a god in their own image(be that materialism, science, anger etc..)
There are times when I have felt really inspired (normally when I've been living a clean life, attending to my family and been more focused on spiritual matters than is normally the case ;) When I read the bible in those conditions its almost as if I'm reading something different, it feels like I'm reading a best seller (hehe I guess I am) and can't wait to find out more. When I feel that inner hunger it becomes obvious to me (IMHO) what the mistakes and the errors are and what the real stuff is, the bits God managed to get past years of dogma and translation.
Quick example -
(Old Testament | Exodus 7:3 - 4)
3 And I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and multiply my signs and my wonders in the land of Egypt.
4 But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
A fundamentalist reading says simply: Pharaoh has no free will, God is playing nasty games that will ultimately lead to deaths of many innocents.
That never ever sat right with the concept of a loving God to me and it shouts to me as a clear mistranslation - ie it should read Pharaoh will harden his heart and I will multiply ... then it fits with verse 4 which is prophetic not malicious.
If I am not inspired when reading holy material then it doesn't really matter whether its inspired or not and also when someone is inspired to a limited extent it doesn't always matter what they are reading / hearing, they will receive the good and leave the bad. When uninspired leaders read scripture you get crusades and jihads, when inspired leaders read it you get peace, compassion and sacrifice IMHO. -
steve2
The critical issue here (if I may be so bold) is not so much 'is the bible inspired?' but are you inspired when you read it?
Come on now; you know that isn't what the intiating post asked. I'm inspired when I listen to Carole King Tapestry or when I read anything by Susan Jeffers, but that's a huge chasm from claiming they're inspired works in the sense alluded to in the first post on this thread. Going by that reasoning, I quess some people are genuinely inspired when they read the writings of Ron L Hubbard, founder of Scientology.