by jwfacts 32 Replies latest watchtower bible
Kazar
Thanks - I see that you do not comment very often but your remarks are brief and thank or congratulate people.
You have a generous nature.
JCanon
Your reply was in earnest as always but alas it is wasted on me.
I am more interested in the Robins returning to my garden this winter than p rophecy concerning the Jews returning to their homeland.
trevor
Your reply was in earnest as always but alas it is wasted on me. I am more interested in the Robins returning to my garden this winter than p rophecy concerning the Jews returning to their homeland.
Thanks, but I'm thining that things may not always be the same. Your life can change overnight if a storm strikes or the government collapses. The ultimate guarantee is serving God and hoping to gain eternal life. JC
JCanon
The ultimate guarantee is serving God and hoping to gain eternal life.
As your own words show this is a hope not a guarantee. According to the Bible God’s love and eternal life are conditional.
As you correctly point out things can change overnight. Sometimes they change even sooner. The only guaranteed moment is the moment you are experiencing right now. It is the only reality. Beyond that it is in lap of the gods - so to speak.
The past and future cannot be accessed but only imagined, and that is trick of the mind. The present moment - today is the most important moment of your life, because it is the only moment of your life.
‘Dead yesterday unborn tomorrow, why fret about them if today be sweet’ (Omar Khayyam)
The Bible is a book which has endured by concentrating on the past and the future. It warns against such a philosophy as mine because living for the moment makes it’s teachings redundant.
The Bible talks of many fallen angels who were created perfect and designed to live forever as it is claimed man was. If God grants you eternal life, you can only continue as you already are until he changes his mind or you upset him. It seems the word ‘eternity’ is negotiable. In other words nothing changes. It is the mind playing tricks again.
You see, you can not be given eternal life, you can only be given one moment at a time. Each moment is eternity. You already have all that God can give you. To ask God for more is like trying to accumulate vast wealth in the hope you will never run out of money. Unlike money time can only be spent at a set rate and it’s only value is the present moment.
I realize that what I am saying is as incompressible to you as your prognostications are to me. I do understand the comfort and security you find in your beliefs as I once found such sanctuary there myself.
trevor
Your concepts are interesting. "living for the moment makes it's teachings redundant."
That is why some concepts of Eastern Religion make more sense to me. It is the stated that the key to happiness is appreciating the present. Too many people recall the good old days, or long for a future paradise, thus missing out on being happy now. JW's have mastered this by stating that these are the worst of times, the last days, and long for the new system. This is an unnecessary hinderance to happiness. People should be encouraged to enjoy the life that they are living, each day at a time.
Whenever we look at times that are not ours (The past and future) we can't help but fall under delusion and illusion. Present is reality, when we walk out of reality, we have people claiming the deaths of thousands to be God's will, and the saving of thousands to be the same God's will when there is no divine insight outside of the people's minds. Reality can't lie to us, only our minds do.
Hello Trevor, your philosophical take on this is classic but optional..
The Bible is a book which has endured by concentrating on the past and the future. It warns against such a philosophy as mine because living for the moment makes it’s teachings redundant.
My philosophical take on this is that while we only have the "moment" now, you still can choose what you do. You can be good or bad. All God is saying is that if you continue to do good in your "moment" then you will get another moment.
As far as the angels go, they don't have defective bodies and so there's no real age limit set on their lives as in the case of animals and plants. But they were created "mortal" along with their free moral agency. Thus the only ones God gives "eternal life" to as a guarantee are those who past the test and those who past the test must be willing to die for God's cause and policies. Thus it is said that he who tries to hold on to his life (for the moment's selfish pleasures?) will lose it. He who lets go of his life for the sake of the kingdom will get it back.
Thus, those who give up the "moment" gain eternity. Those who try to hold onto the moment, lose eternity.
God's offer of eternal life addresses the "greatest love of all" and that is to love yourself. Why cut yourself short? When you choose God, over everything else, your family, wealth, whatever, then you are choosing YOURSELF over all. Serving God is the best personal choice you can make. Choosing the moment means you make things or passions, whether people or activities your "god" and those gods will eventually kill you. And without life? You have nothing. And that moment is forgotten. Satan thinks the glorious moment is better than the eternal compromise. God understands. Accepts the rejection. Allows the moment within reason, and then that moment and that person is forgotten by those who choose eternal life.
Your argument becomes a moot point though, when if each of us is given that one moment, an we can choose God or Satan, those who choose God out of preference to God are the happy with their choice. The extended life is just a perk....a very BIG perk!
The way I look at it, people willing die for causes all the time. Why not die for God's cause since it is the more noble of causes? But especially since you can also get eternal life? There actually is more to be concerned with than this moment after all, no?
JC
Some people say there is no evidence for God or for inspiration or any of that. But that is only because God or an angel has not personally spoken to them. Moses, who interacted with God directly would disagree because his experience was beyond the "Bible" or a written concept of a god.
So those persons whose religious experience reaches beyond the scriptures, though in harmony with the scriptures, just laugh at this. Those of us who have spoken to God or seen angels have a new reference for the authenticity of the Bible. Those who have not can only doubt, complain and scorn. But it doesn't change anything that is real or unreal.
But I will admit that having some personal spiritual event or experience, whether paranormal or drug-induced, does make a difference on whether you think there is really a god, angels or the Bible represents the truth.
JC
Why not die for God's cause since it is the more noble of causes?
This cry of faith has been one of the commonest catchcries throughout all human history. Each group or person who utters those words believes that they (alone) have the correct view of who God is and what his cause is. Here we go around the mulberry bush....
It's not until the listener digs a little deeper that the peculiarity of each utterance comes into full view. Yes, folks, all it takes is doing God's will - as if it were so palpably clear about what that will actually is. Depending on who you listen to, it either includes or excludes those from the following faiths: Christian, Judaism, Hindu, Islam, Buddhism, Conficianism and on and on and on ad infinitum. Do God's will alright - his will as heavily prescribed by humans!
I'm with those that believe we have to define terms. "Inspired" and "Scripture" are the terms. The questions as others have pointed out are; Inspired how and to what degree? Scripture, what it is and what it is not.
I personaly believe the Bible contains three things:
The real key to reading the Bible in my opinion is discernment, reading the verses with a mind open to the possibilities of what else they may be other than the literal word of God.
An example of Holy Spirit overshadowing someone while they are writting (I believe) is Proverbs chapter 8. Compare it with how chapters 7 and 9 read, it is clear to me that Jesus took over the writing of chapter eight.
According to the Bible God’s love and eternal life are conditional.
No. According to the witnesses Gods' love is conditional. I could site scriptures where it clearly says Gods' love is unconditional. It's religions twisted interpretations of scriptures that they like to make it seem Gods' love is conditional.
JCanon: I always enjoy your posts.
Integ.
