Hi DF, I think the question is worded a bit deceptively becuase I think most Jehovah's Witnesses are good people who want to get the sense of what the Bible says and who want to do the right thing. It's such a diverse conglomorate of peoplle I think it would be wrong to stereotype Jehovah's Witnesses becuase everybody's different. I think you will like my opinion though, becuase i consider myself a fairly unbiased person. For a lot of people on this site, including me, I found being a Jehovah's Witness more of a burden than a joy. There is very little room to formulate an idea on what the Bible says on various susbjects if they run contrary to what the Organization says. I do agree that Jehovah's Witnesses are correct on numerous issues, including some that you have mentioned, but nowhere in the Bible does it say that Jehovah's Witnesses must refrain from Blood Transfusions (Acts 15), even the word "Transufsion" is not in the Bible. Likewise there is not a single scripture that says that all Jehovah's Witnesses must preach (Ephesians 4:11). Furthermore, for the longest time, Jehovah's Witnesses looked down on secular education until a couple of years ago. IMHO, this is not the sign of a progressive organization. It is also very difficult to make friends inside the congregation, just ask your Biblle study conductor if that's so. Even James said that the true religon is one that looked after orphans and widows in their tribulation. I am not telling you these things as propaganda. In fact, I would be much more comfortable if you put more weight on finding these things out for yourself. And one way to do that is to investigate both sides (pro and con). You might also want to ask study if it is okay for Witnesses investigate both the pro and con stances of Jehovah's Witnesses as well. I hoped I have helped you in some way.
Why are the JW's so bad?
by DF 32 Replies latest jw friends
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Jeremy Bravo
Hi DF,
I was a study, just like you, back in 1998. Just like you, I 'thought' I had done my research and found God's organization. I had somehow convinced myself that i was happy and that I was doing the right thing.
Truth Is, I never looked at anything else beyond WTS literature. I just took their side and believed their quotes and never thought that any sincere religious group such as this could be so Orwellian. When I actually DID look at REAL opposing views (the ones the society DOESN'T present to you) I was outta there within a week. Never looked back. If you get the chance, read some of AlanF's works regarding the WTS. He and many others have written some very powerful pieces exposing the Watchtower. Even now, 3 years later I'm still shocked by some of the things I read.
How do you know I'm telling the truth? You don't. That's why you need to do your own research. In addition to the books by Ray Franz, I suggest going to
. http:\\www.geocities.com/osarsif
and reading through some of the material there. If you do not believe that the society actually wrote what has been attributed to them, many here have the source material and could make it available to you.
Good luck and Happy hunting,
Jer. -
biblexaminer
Yes, yes, yes. Many of the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses are right. So, why not follow the devil? He took Jesus up on top of a high place and began "Is it not written...?|"
You see, it's not about doctrine. Even the Devil can use 'good doctrine' for his purposes. I have spent a lifetime in the mighty ORG, I am still there too. But I am like a caged animal. I want out.
So, you want to join? Then join. I see many like you coming in the door behind me, and I want to get out all the more.
I have studied, and studied, and studied. I assure you, that if you have any brain whatsoever, at some point you will begin to see that all is not right in tinseltown. You will want to get things straightened out. You will pursue the "truth" amidst the truth, and then, finally then, you will begin to see.
Ahh... but your life will be for the most part behind you, and you will be trapped, and as you wipe the sweat from your brow, the sweat from the effort of struggling to get out, then I will lean over to you and inquire "any more questions?"
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Francois
And then there's the possibility that DF is just another active JW who thinks he's distracting this board from its purpose.
Desperate people do desperate things.
Franc
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DF
No I'm not a JW, I'm just interested in them that's all.
And I have researched using other material besides the stuff put out by the Watchtower.
I've always had a desire to join the military, but according to my research, not what the JW's teach me, the military is not acceptable to god.
I agree with their views of the Trinity, the scriptures, in my view, never say that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit/Ghost whatever you wanna call it are one.
I agree with their views on Blood because I know from my grandpa's experiences how dangerous a transfusion can be.
I agree witht their views on employment because there are some jobs that would definately not be appropriate in the eyes of god.
I believe that Jehova is gods name... at least that's the English way to say it.
I agree with the fact that the Cross is a pegan symbol.
I believe that the Kingdom will come.
I can keep going if you want? -
larc
DF,
I think you should get baptized.
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Stephanus
I've always had a desire to join the military, but according to my research, not what the JW's teach me, the military is not acceptable to god.
And you'll find Tiny Campolo, a mainstream Christian minister, agress with you in 20 Hot Potatoes Christians are Afraid to Handle.
I agree with their views of the Trinity, the scriptures, in my view, never say that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit/Ghost whatever you wanna call it are one.
And you'll find the Christadelphians and the Unitarians will agree with you there.
I agree with their views on Blood because I know from my grandpa's experiences how dangerous a transfusion can be.
Then you'll find that the Christian Scientists agree with you there. The JWs only changed to that idea in 1942, AFTER Jehovah had supposedly approved them as his org.
I agree witht their views on employment because there are some jobs that would definately not be appropriate in the eyes of god.
The Christadelphians agree with you there, as do the Mennonites, who were around long before the Watchtower decided in 1940 not to allow military service.
I believe that Jehova is gods name... at least that's the English way to say it.
The WBTS themselves admit that "Yahweh" more accurately reflects the true pronunciation. ANd this mob use that name:
http://yaim.org/about.htm
The Dubs adopted the name long AFTER Jehovah had supposedly approved the JWs as his org in 1919I believe that the Kingdom will come.
As do most branches of Christendom. Specifically, it's all the Christadelphians talk about. The Mormons are big on it too.
I agree with the fact that the Cross is a pegan symbol.
If that's so, then why did Jehovah approve the Bible Students, as they then were, as his organisation in 1919, since they were still using the cross as a symbol then?
Jehovah really wouldn't recognise the organisation he supposedly approved in 1919 if he were to do a similar evaluation today. In 1919, the Bible students didn't use the name "Jehovah", they could smoke, have blood transfusions, celebrate birthdays and Christmas and serve in the military. They also used the cross symbol.
Q: How do you know a Dub loyal to "Jehovah's Organisation" is lying?
A: Their lips are moving. -
JT
DF says:
3. From what I can see they don't try and encourage you to take low-paying jobs, there's one JW at the Kingdom Hall I've been going to and he owns a construction company, another is a computer teacher.
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Several have made outright statements and others have suggested that the Society's negative position on higher education has changed. 'The Society does not discourage higher education where I live.' Worse, 'apostates have made it all up--the Society has never discouraged education.'
Would you like to know the straight stuff? From "Our Kingdom Ministry" for June 2001 (km-E US 6/01, Vo. 44, No. 6, p. 2)
Service Meeting Schedule for Week Starting July 2
After Song 5 and 13 minutes of local announcements about turning in field reports, and encouraging shelf-clearing of overstocked Yearbooks.
15 min: Youths--Be Wise in Choosing Your Career. This is the first of three Service Meeting parts that will review Scriptural principles related to supplemental education. **Some Christian youths are pursuing secular careers through higher education, which is having a negative impact on their spirituality.** This part is a discussion between two parents and their teenage son or daughter. The youth is at a point where a serious decision needs to be made about future goals. Although some may want to pursue financial advantages, prestige, or comforts of life, the family examine the Bible to see what it recommends. (See Young People Ask, pages 174-5; The Watchtower, August 15, 1997, page 21, and September 1, 1999, pages 19-21, paragraphs 1-3 and 5-6.) The youth agrees that it is wise to pursue a course in life that will serve him or her well in achieving theocratic goals to advance Kingdom interests."
Should be an exciting three weeks. (Don't think you will hear, "Well, Randy, your mother and I don't mind the nursing home in our old age.") Would you like to be in this demonstration?
What do you think? Has the Society changed its position? Or is this just the old wink-wink, nudge-nudge game? Or ...?
Maximus
PS Oh, yes. There is a four-pager in this km titled "Can You Make Yourself Available?" All about Bethel service. A "special call is going out to those can make themselves available. Are you ready to respond with a willing spirit, similar to that of Isaiah?" -
JT
more on HIgher Education__
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. Awake ,5/22/69,pg15,
: If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never
: grow old in this present system of things. .....all evidence
: in fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is
: due to end in a few years. ....as a young person you will never fulfill
: any career that this system offers. If you are in high school and
: thinking about a college education, it means at least four, perhaps
: even six or eight more years to graduate into a specialized career. But
: where will this system of things be by that time? It will be well on the
: way toward its finish, if not actually gone!Posted by N.H. [Pravo] on August 10, 1999 at 04:43:19 {.5VYJ7MmZUHSG.vl05doX.sgIvMbfw}:
Some times when reading WT literature, one wonders about the mental processes of the writing staff in Brooklyn. Take a look at this little gem from the May 1973 KM and notice what the WTS call"encouragement"
*** km 5/73 6 What is Your Heart's Desire? ***
An elder in Korea encouraged his four children to pioneer. At a circuit assembly he and the children were interviewed. The oldest daughter related how she had been the highest scholastically in her high school. She herself wanted to go to college at one point. However, her father informed her that, while she was free to choose such a course, she could not expect financial support from him. She changed her mind about college, and now she is enjoying many blessings as a pioneer. The next oldest, a son, told how he also at one time wanted to go to college and follow a worldly course. But his father sat down and reviewed the Scriptures with him. His father also told him that, if he insisted on following a worldly course, he would also have to find another place to live. He heeded his father's counsel and is very grateful that his father was kind but firm in his stand. The two younger children explained that they were impressed by what happened to the two older ones. From the beginning they planned to become pioneers. The youngest son gave up his high school education to pioneer.So with this kind of "encouragement" who can blame the JW youth? "Of course you are free to go to college girl, but I won't pay for it! How "encouraging"! "If you go to college son, I will throw you out of the house! Wow, how "encouraging" that must have been folks! Of course the younger children learned a lot from all this wonderful display of "encouragement" from their father, the elder, so they gave up all thought of an education. This was in 1973, and in a competitive society like the Korean, I am sure they have enjoyed a long life of window cleaning by now, while distributing the same WT "encouragement". This little story from the 73 KM really captures the fundamental insanity of the WTS in an excellent way. It illustrates so clearly the tragedy of how they manage to rob people out of their whole lives, by forcing them to make insane "decisions" about their personal future.
Norm.
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JT
DF
here are some wt views on education- this is what myself and others had to deal with being jw from the 60's
#########
Hello,
take courage all of you "1960's generation":
awake! 22.05.1969 p. 15
" If you are a young person, you also
need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present
system of things. Why not? Because all the evidence in fulfillment
of Bible prophecy indicates that this corrupt system is due to end
in a few years. Of the generation that observed the beginning of the
"last days" in 1914, Jesus foretold: "This generation will by no means
pass away until all these things occur."- Matt. 24:34
In case you had some doubts about Jesus's words:
*** w73 1/15 61 How Important Can a Promise Be?
***
We know that Jesus Christ will take such action within this generation.
Bible chronology clearly establishes that in 1914 C.E. he was given rulership over the world of mankind. (Dan. 4:16-27; 7:12-14; Rev. 11:15)
J.C. MacHislopp
Moridin
Junior Member
Unites States of America
Posts: 40
Since: Feb 16, 2001 Posted: Mar 8, 2001 6:47:14 PM
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This promise was also realized for the generation of 1914. My grandfather, born in 1904, had his only wish, being able to live straight through to the "new system", dashed to bits on his death bed. After the 1995 change of "this generation", he started to become depressed. At the age of 97 before his death he said, "They've been saying the end is coming, the end is coming, since the very beginning. I don't think it will ever come." He died shortly thereafter hurt by failed promises of the Watchtower.Thirdson
Senior Member
Unites States of America
Posts: 83
Since: Feb 5, 2001 Posted: Mar 9, 2001 1:06:01 AM
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JC,--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are a young person, you also need to face the fact that you will never grow old in this present system of things.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Well, that turned out to be a fine fact! I grew-up in the 60's (born 1960), I remember all those promises. College was no concern to me I wasn't even going to leave school! The world was not going to make it past 1975 and by 1984 it would be too polluted and over populated.
My son was born 8 months after hearing the talk "Responsible Child Rearing in the Time of the End (summer 1987) He turned 13 today and will get a driving permit in two years time and starts college in just over 5 years.
I though will not be growing old I have a WTS fact to keep me young..and a picture in the attic!
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
Edited by - Thirdson on 9 March 2001 1:19:50
larc
Master Member
Posts: 876
Since: Dec 2, 2000 Posted: Mar 9, 2001 3:21:10 AM
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Thirdson,I didn't catch that pic in the attic comment right away. Are you refering to the Portrait of Thirdson Gray?
Well, all my friends who predicted Argmagedden whould be here before I graduated from college are grandparents now. I guess that's why I find it dificult to get all emotional when people like spectrum, logical, mds, bjc, and jr come here to tell us we are living in momentous times Armageddon wise. Instead of going preaching, I think I'll go fishing this spring, with my grand daughter.
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