by Terry 172 Replies latest jw friends
i didn't know you were an environmentalist. cool!
i see what you're saying. and it's a noble cause. we should engage in it.
it may not seem like it, but i'm a searcher too. after all, it's our nature to do so. and i'm all about keeping the awe alive. it's the methodology that concerns me. the explanations.
i guess i am quite wary of being taken by anyone's devices, or even my own, again.
I shouldn't really be on this thread to be honest, where Terry is in his life, is about proving reality and his world view. At the moment I am about proving what life is about and mourning the loss of inocence. It's hard for me to understand people simply trying to argue pure logic. I am logical, but search for something more.
Fascinating discussion guys. I try to walk in both mindsets; mystical filtered by rational, rational augmented through mystical. Its a Yin & Yang thing. It works for me. I've really enjoyed whatching both sides to this.
(Btw I agree that Thales is a much better eponym for the "rational" side -- actually as opposed to mythology rather than mysticism).
Yes, and the funny thing is that his hydrogenic theory of the origins of the Universe was just as untrue as the mythology. LOL. But I like his epistemology better.
Pole
Fascinating discussion guys. I try to walk in both mindsets; mystical filtered by rational, rational augmented through mystical. Its a Yin & Yang thing. It works for me. I've really enjoyed whatching both sides to this.
hey dark, i tried meditating on my holidays. i know what is going on in my brain (temporal lobe vs parietal) , but i wanted to try it anyways. it was cool! TS
How little we know
How much to discover
What chemical forces flow
From lover to lover
How little we understand - what touches of that tingle
That sudden explosion - when two tingles intermingle
Who cares to define
What chemistry this is
Who cares with your lips on mine
How ignorant bliss is
So long as you kiss me - (and) the world around us shatters
How little it matters - how little we know
(How little we know, how little we know,...)
Frank Sinatra
Hey, Tetrapod, I was definitely writing to Terry with my post, yes. I was merely quoting your gracious admission that 'you could be wrong.' But let me give my response anyway...
since when does religion or magical thinking have a birthright to respect? just because some old guy with white hair said it should be respected? is a lack of belief equally respected?
I don't believe you or Terry or anyone needs to respect religion or magical thinking--and certainly not simply because someone says you should. I don't know if I really belong in this thread. You gentlemen (and Brenda ) have, I think, done considerably more thinking and study on this subject than I. But let me start here...
1) I think a primary reason for someone's disdain for "mysticism" is not the idea that someone might entertain or reflect upon such thoughts, but that this thinking might put unnecessary limitations on the life they enjoy--even to the point of their being held captive by such thinking. (In Terry's case this captivity was all too real while in prison.) That makes us wince--maybe even makes us feel ill because of our own experiences.
2) I am equally concerned when a person or persons brashly insist that their way of thinking is the only correct one. Often, in the process of advancing this position, they will contemptuously deride others who hold a different view. Their absolute certainty often wins over others who are equally intolerant. This makes me wince too.
History tells the sad tale all too often of the masses of humankind being led around by the nose. Those doing the leading are not only mystical, religious zealots. Sometimes they are fanatical men who demand that everyone accept their thinking unilaterally.
So I'll copy what I'd wrote originally in this thread...
But a little respect please. If not the "respect" that suggests those who disagree on this subject might actually be correct--that's okay. But how about the "respect" that doesn't resort to scornfully belittling those with whom you disagree?
I've tried to draw a line between "respecting" beliefs we think are stupid--and showing "respect" for others by remembering we're only human too, and that they've a right to their thinking. Logic, rational persuasion? Fine. Snarling, vicious derision? I say careful.
No doubt some will disagree with this line, but I was just trying to be an encouragement toward civility. Terry, apparently you thought I was leaning away from this. Still don't understand why. If you'd still like to chat in a PM, that's great. But right now here is the scenario: I'm away on business and staying with my JW brother and his wife. They're both away and I've connected into his phone line to get access on my laptop. He just phoned to say he'd be stopping by before I go. I have about three minutes before he finds me on an ex-JW site! LOL! Argh...here he comes.
Hey Confession,
LOL. gotta love using a wits connection for aposta stuff. he he.
and, i agree with everything you wrote. you write well too, BTW. your point #1, hit the nail on the head for me.
thanks for posting,
TS
Seriously, he was walking in the room as I was hitting the "Submit Post" button.
you write well too, BTW
Thanks so much; I enjoy reading your posts too. I understand we may have been hit by the clue-bus along about the same time. This month is my one year anniversary of accepting that the WTS is not what it purports to be. Glad to hear you had such a great time on your recent vacation too. Sounds like fun.
hey, that's great man! cheers to intellectual freedom!
TS
