TESTING the results of two different ways of thinking (page 4)

tetrapod.sapien

There IS a God, and He's laughing at you...

ROFL!!

LittleToe

Did ya lose your sense of humour, with the decision to kill your genome?

Tell me, are you and I falsifiable?

Will you wake one day and come to the conclusion that you never actually had a conversaion with a Scot called Ross, but had been deluding yourself?

Such is the nature of my evidence. If you want me to deny the reality of it then methinks you have a "logic" issue...

tetrapod.sapien

Tell me, are you and I falsifiable?

our existence is, yes.

Will you wake one day and come to the conclusion that you never actually had a conversaion with a Scot called Ross, but had been deluding yourself?

if i did, then i suppose that there would be numerous people that could verify that the conversations took place. it could be verified through archives that we did indeed have conversations.

i could hypothesize: If i really did have conversations with Ross the exJW scot, then there would be other dispassionate observers that could be contacted to verify it, and internet archives could also be used to verify it. i could even go meet ross in person, which i may do someday hopefully.

i understand what you are getting at, but there is a crucial piece to the puzzle missing with regards trying to prove that you speak with jesus. that said, i do realize that you are the first person to say that you have no desire to prove anything to anyone else regarding what you experience. i believe you rationalized it once to me by saying that you would not be so rude to any other friend, why would you be so with jesus. that's fine.

TS

Narkissos

What's your reason for living? I guarantee that *somewhere* in your answer to that, there is a mystical element.

Right on.

Survival instinct (either individual or collective) is certainly implied. Yet as a speaking subject I have to relate to it symbolically -- here some kind of irrationality is always implied.

A post-mortem reward strikes me as one of the most shallow, self-deluding and egocentrical ways to relate to our life and death. There are many others which all boil down to the idea of leaving some personal trace or print in the ongoing world -- transmitting our genome as Tetra put it, being remembered nicely by friends and acquaintances, accomplishing something memorable or lasting, modifying reality or culture in the most tenuous way according to our own style. The question remains, why should I be interested at all in any of that since I won't be there to enjoy it? This, from a purely individual or monadic standpoint, is irrational. There is a logical gap into which we cannot jump without some "mystical" connection to whatever is beyond us -- call it faith, hope or love.

LittleToe

Tetra:

The critical piece is filled by the fact that I'm not unique in my claim.

If I'm not boring you, please allow me take my analogy further:

Supposing a group of online Canadian exJWs had a blind friend who had heard of your friend Ross. How would you verify my existance? Wouldn't you find it kind of strange if he continued to question the veracity of your communal statements?

I suspect you'd come to a point where you'd finally say "well, we don't really need to prove anything. Maybe you'll meet him yourself one day".

How do you see logic working through these various deductions?

Didier:
Deeeep!

I'm hoping that your probing will allow us all a keyhole view into the mind of a fundamentalist-rationalist.

Terry

You know something? This is the goofiest damn conversation I've been around since grade school!

Anybody who has trouble verifying reality is just pretending to be a pain in the ass (and succeeding).

I'd challenge anybody to give me some reasonable examples of non-rational thinking that are of actual benefit to anybody.

Everything we have that means anything to us is produced as the result of non-contradictory measurements. This includes our bank accounts, our financial data, our health insurance and all our technology.

What exactly has the #2 thinking given us that even remotely compares in benefit?

You see---this isn't even a debate. It is just obstinacy parading as inquiry.

Bah!

T.

1.Rational (using the mind and reasoning on the basis of non-contradictory facts determined by testing).

2.Mystical (relying on an imaginary source of authority whose power cannot be demonstrated; only asserted).

SixofNine

LOVE, baby, LOVE! L.O.V.E. Love!

*watches Terry's head explode* :-D

Terry

*watches Terry's head explode* :-D

Nah, it was just a zit on my "little toe".

BrendaCloutier

Brenda:Ironically I'm taking that position for the sake of discussion. I'm somewhere inbetween...
Mysticism doesn't subvert the rational, it augments it.

D'oh, yeah, Ross, I keep forgetting you are often the debils advocate! lol And yes, I know you're somewhere in between. So am I.

Terry, this is actually a very interesting thread. Thank you for starting it.

Mysticism is not necessarily <<2.Mystical (relying on an imaginary source of authority whose power cannot be demonstrated; only asserted).>>

A Higher Power can be any number of things or entities, including authoritative, i.e. government, corporate, military, parental, etc. Even a group of people have a "higher power" than an individual. Alas, you will accept these as they can be rationally explained.

Mysticism is more... all encompassing of that which is not currently explainable, or provable by today's scientific tests IMO. Remember, at one time epilepsy and schizophrenia was considered demonic possession or signs of sainthood! The Universe revolved around the Earth, and woman was formed from man's rib....

Even one of my favorite skeptics, Carl Sagan, had a level of belief in the mystical - or the unknown, simply as that which was yet unexplainable, but skeptical of current explanations none-the-less.

I believe, through my experience, until my further experience changes my belief.

Hugs

B

BrendaCloutier

Interesting: Getting outta bed in the morning a "mystical" experience. I suppose that could be the essense, as even though one has scheduled things to be done, get up, sht shower shave, dress, commute to work, todo list at work, etc. Who knows just what is actually going to transpire? The reality of it is most can be explained. But there is "hope" that life will continue as usual, as planned, and nothing out of the ordinary will happen. But the phone rings at work and it's an old collegue you haven't seen in years. Or there is a car accident on the way to work. etc. All explainable. Yet timing is everyting!

TESTING the results of two different ways of thinking

Share this