potter and the clay (page 2)

tetrapod.sapien

DD,

he was paraphrasing how a bible thumper might approach this hybrid of genes. re read his post.

TS

peacefulpete

He said he wants "rights of creatorship" If that is the case, he will have to use his own matter.

D Dog

Actually I am arguing the opposite because I feel the illustration of potter and clay is barbaric, disregarding the needs and will of the supposed 'clay' (sentient beings). I guessed before posting this thread that someone would try to suggest that there is some difference, ignoring that man would have made a sentient species where there was none before. This would also have huge implications for metaphysical philosophers who even yet continue to insist that our self awareness and intelligence are the result of a mysterious 'soul' or 'spirit' not present in chimps. Yet all that is peripheral to the issue of rights of the new sentient being.

peacefulpete

I was just recalling a video I saw a few years ago of a circus chimp that was trained to walk upright. With practice it had a very humanlike gate. The point of the program was how it made us feel to see this. Most everyone admitted to discomfort, some were outraged. Why? Maybe our egos need to be examined. Are we so vain that anything that immitates us or mirrors our behavior is perceived as threatening our importance?.

tetrapod.sapien

The point of the program was how it made us feel to see this. Most everyone admitted to discomfort, some were outraged. Why? Maybe our egos need to be examined. Are we so vain that anything that immitates us or mirrors our behavior is perceived as threatening our importance?.

- well said! currently, this is a major pet peeve of mine.

i find the applicaton of the potter metaphor in the intellectual lives of people, to be highly dishonest of reality (if they cared to look), and a major contributor to mental discontinuity. of course, it boils down to "design" and the implications of such. IMO, the implication, when applied to actions, if even only subconsciously, causes real problems for humans, and our interaction with the earth around us.

the whole point of bringing the computational nature of genomes to the attention of creationists (loosely), is to coment on the invalidity of a potter metaphor, or that of blueprint-type design.

TS

tetrapod.sapien

i want to challenge them and everyone to ask themselves what rights such a being would have.

the same rights that we enjoy, regardless of uncomfortablke it makes us feel. if they have the ability to utilize the rights mentally, then they're theirs.

Does the fact that their sentience is the result of human invention give us the rights of patent use.

no. not in the slightest. the aquisition of new knowledge and skill should be good enough for us. those who patent commit the same injustice as those who use the potter metaphor for their worldview.

Does the Bible's principle stand up to modern sensitivities?

of course not. to subscribe to it, is to throw out what we have done, and become in the meanwhile: closer to human.

TS

Deputy Dog

From a human perspective, just look at how we treat different races never mind a different species. If this could happen, would God see them as vessels of honor or dishonor? and, would He judge them individually, like men? I guess I missed your point, are you asking how man would (or should) treat them? Or how would God judge them? At this point, this would make a good sci fi movie. D Dog

hamsterbait

Hibiscus -

If he is the potter and we are the clay, why did the potter make some bits of clay so powerful and evil they made life torture and terror ( Look at history) for millions.

Oh I am sure you will quote St Paul who says the pot has no right to complain to God "Why did you make me like this?"

True, of course.

Hitler, Polpot, Tamerlano, Nero, Caligula, Myra Hyndley, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden are no doubt shining examples of humble humans who have never been as evil as to ask why the great potter made them the way they are.

HB

tetrapod.sapien

Hitler, Polpot, Tamerlano, Nero, Caligula, Myra Hyndley, Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden ...

...Barbara Bush...

hamsterbait

Tetra S You perve!

How can you be so audacious as to bring Barbie B into this?

I never even mentioned history's victims of necrophilia... Not that I condemn you. Sleep with who you want, even if they never find out.

HB

tetrapod.sapien

LOL, hammie,

i think you have confused two different posts...he he he...

TS

potter and the clay

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