The Anointed, the Numbers and the GB

by thinker 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  thinker

  Have you ever considered the anointed, the number of partakers at the memorial and the governing body TOGETHER?

  If you examine the number of partakers you can clearly see that sometimes the numbers INCREASE. I asked some JWs about this and their reply was, "Those are replacements for unfaithful ones". Now, this is just a knee-jerk reply that no JW has really given any thought to. So I pointed out that a 1-for-1 replacement would not lead to an increase in the number of anointed. It's like in football, if one player is injured he comes off the field when his replacement comes on the field; so there's never any more than the legal number on the field; no increase in numbers. After pointing out this obvious fact, JWs will reluctantly tell you that some of those claiming to be anointed are mistaken. I say reluctantly because JWs aren't supposed to question anyone's claim to being anointed and since there's no clear sign that a person really is or is not part of that little group it would be kind of pointless to dispute it anyway.

  But here's the thing: if the number of anointed rose by 100 between '88 and '90 and again between '94 and '97 (as it did), then there's alot of mistaken people claiming to be anointed. And if those are ones who had to be replaced because they were unfaithful, then how do they know that some or all of the GB (who come form this little group) aren't part of the ones who were unfaithful? How do they really KNOW that all of the members of the GB really aren't just mistaken, unfaithful ones? Because decisions on policy are decided by a 2/3 majority vote of the GB, it would only take a handful of unfaithful, mistaken anointed being placed on the GB to lead it away from the guiding hands of the holy spirit and there would be nothing the rest of the anointed could do about it.

  There is one possible answer to this numbers thing. I asked those same JWs about Ray Franz. He was a member of the GB and he claimed to be anointed. So I asked if he was mistaken. No JW wanted to admit the possibilty of a non-anointed being voted onto the GB, so they said he probably was anointed. This led to my next question: Is he STILL anointed? They had to admit that it was possible. Are there others who are anointed but are not JWs? That could explain why the numbers increase in some years. If some of the anointed ARE NOT JWs, then when they become JWs the numbers would naturally increase. But this idea shakes the whole idea of the WT being the only organization on earth being led by God!

  No matter how you slice it, it's a scary thing for JWs to think about.

  thinker
• 

  in a new york bethel minute

  thanks i like the angle you took on that... it makes a lot of sense except to JW's... like a lot of things!
• 

  carla

  Makes perfect sense to me! my jw would simply say none of that matters, just leave it all to jah. It doesn't change who jah is or Jesus or the fds. sick.
• 

  AK - Jeff

  The real problem is the steady nature of the numbers.

  The JW theology on this states that the majority of annointed were 'sealed' by 1935. The numbers should be falling by thousands each year, but they don't fall at all.

  This was one of the first things that started to bother me a few years back. I did an extensive calc [took me months to do] based on the actuarial tables and actual death percentages of persons that would have made up the annointed group starting in 1941. [This was after the big Rutherford scare-off in which the numbers of partakers fell by about 50% from 1935 till '41] Anyway, the long and short of it was that by now there would be [even using the most optimistic numbers] no more than a handful remaining today, less than a thousand.

  I lost all the calcs when my old computer took a crap a few months back.

  Heck, even someone born in 1935 would now be 70. Someone old enough to be 'annointed' by God for everlasting service on a heavenly throne would be at least 90 now. The maj of the group would be dead long ago -and those over 90 have a mortality rate of more than 10% per year.

  Man - I wish I still had those numbers. But alas, it lead us to the right conclusions - that the JW were way off track. So it was worth the work.

  Jeff
• 

  bennyk

  Methinks most Witnesses would claim that although Raymond Franz was an anointed Christian before and during his stint with the Governing Body, when he "apostasized" and was disfellowshipped, he lost that "anointing", became a member of the "Evil Slave" class, and was to be replaced. However, the replacement of an "unfaithful, formerly anointed" individual need not be immediate, but rather, take place after the passage of some time (perhaps several years). Thus, the number of recognized anointed members of the "Remnant" will fall both because of death AND upon their defection from the "one, true Faith" []. Accordingly, it could be (but need not appear as) a one-for-one replacement because the cumulative defection of not-yet-replaced Evil Slaves could take place over several years, followed by a total replacement in a SINGLE year. If the number of recognized replacements exceeds the number of those who have died faithful since the previous Memorial, the total number of "anointed" will appear to increase. Of course, such an explanation is necessary only if the number 144 000 be literal.

  BTW, supposedly my own crown is up for grabs; when will I be replaced?
• 

  sir82

  This is going to be a huge headache for the GB in about 10-20 years time.

  Then, the GB will be composed entirely of persons born after the "magic date" of 1935. I.e., per JW theology, all members of the GB will be "replacements" of "evil slaves".

  I fully expect the number of Memorial partakers to remain steady, or even increase, over this time. The few remaining, capable-of-thought JWs ought to be thinking "Wow, there sure were an awful lot of unfaithful anointed. How 'faithful' & 'discreet' could they have been?"

  I'm also quite sure plans are in teh works for dealing with this. Options I can quickly think of:

  -- Stronger enforcement of who is actually counted as a partaker. Elders will be instructed to make a determination, based on field service & "overall spirituality". of who might truly be "anointed", and not count the obvious nuts who partake each year. This buys a little time, as it will result in the 8000 number finally decreasing significantly.

  -- Dropping (quietly) the 1935 cutoff date. Perhaps stating "very few of those partaking before the inspection of 1919 were 'truly anointed'". The implication being that some who began to partake later really weren't "replacements".

  -- Less likely, but conceivable: Dropping the horribly tenuous argument that the number 144,000 is literal. There is still a "little flock", but is not necessarily limited--just smaller than the 6.5 million "other sheep".
• 

  thinker

  
  

  
  Hi Sir82,

  You said, "Stronger enforcement of who is actually counted as a partaker. Elders will be instructed to make a determination, based on field service & "overall spirituality". of who might truly be "anointed", and not count the obvious nuts who partake each year. This buys a little time, as it will result in the 8000 number finally decreasing significantly."

  This seems to be taking place already. As I was researching the numbers I ran across another forum where someone said that 3 in their congregation partook, but only one was counted for the number sent to Bethel. If I can find it again I'll post a link. Found it! http://www.jehovahswitnessonline.com/viewtopic.php?t=7477&start=0&sid=82566b3809b0808de7320955cbf1f456

  thinker
• 

  tweety

  I had noticed that the numbers had changed from one year to the next. So in 1991 I took all the publications that I had in my little library and placed them on the floor. When I noticed that the numbers were changing by a few hundred, I thought that this must be an error. I called one of my local elders and he told me that 'you are studying way to much and not to question what is printed in the publications.'

  'hmmmm studying to much?' Not long after that, I was out....and I never looked back.

  Dee
• 

  Nathan Natas

  I think you should discuss this with eWatchman. His replies might be interesting.
• 

  Neo

  Thinker, check the threads:

  The 12-Member Governing Body - Pics, info and analysis on the new additions

  Update: New Governing Body Pics - Have fun!

  Neo