HELP! - I'm Torn

by Francois 15 Replies latest jw friends

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  Francois

  There's no doubt that in many religious philosophies, believers are advised not to fight with evil; not to resist. Jesus certainly advised his followers not to "resist evil."

  And that's why I'm torn.

  I believe, as do most of you here, that the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is evil; a manifest, clear, present, and palpable evil. And we here resist it will all we've got.

  Hellz bellz, I've challenged the cowards to public debate and I assure you there would be massive amounts of "resisting" going on in any such debate if it were ever to occur.

  So I'm torn.

  If we're not to "resist evil" then what are we supposed to do with it? Are we to sit idly by while we know first hand the evil being practiced in the cult of Jehovah's Witnesses?

  I guess I don't really understand the nature of the concept not to "resist evil." Isn't child sex abuse evil? Aren't we to resist it?

  Perhaps someone here will have an opinion (perhaps? bbbwwwwaaaaaahahahaahahaha)

  Francois
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  individuals wife

  Are we to sit idly by while we know first hand the evil being practiced in the cult of Jehovah's Witnesses?

  As only one person up against the mighty empire of the WTBTS it can be very daunting, we know that the organisation is full of faults and hypocrisy and hides a multitude of sins yet what can be done to expose them? They have cleverly shut up the eyes and ears of their members, cutting them off from those who are disfellowshipped and disassociated, making it very difficult for those of us now on the outside to penetrate the barriers and tell those that we left behind of the things that we have learnt. We have been made out to be evil and against everything they stand for, they are not allowed to form their own opinions based on accurate knowledge, yes, accurate knowledge - something the society always are claiming that they have yet are so lacking in.

  So, are we to sit idly by? What can we do to change things? Obviously the internet is of paramount importance, here we are free to debate and share experiences and examine motives, all the while knowing that there may be lurkers out there who will take notice of what we say and may be motivated to make their escape.

  I have seen ideas here before such as lobbying government, using the courts, posting advertisements, being a demonstrator outside assemblies and conventions, all of these I imagine have their good points but I feel as though it needs something really big to blow the roof off the organisation. It makes me so frustrated that I cannot do more to bring them to their knees.

  What else can we do? All suggestions will be gratefully received.....
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  Pathofthorns

  I think if one chose to fight everything he considered "evil", one would never have any peace in his life.

  I enjoy your posts Franscois and I'm sure you've got alot more to say on the subject. Perhaps it's not about being "torn" as it is about being balanced.

  We can show we don't tolerate "evil things" when we start with ourselves, the only people we can really change if we want to. We can influence our families and those close to us by showing why certain things are unacceptable. We also need to make sure that what we consider "evil" is not merely our own predjudes but something that society in general would consider to be so, like as you mentioned, child abuse.

  Many here have shown they don't tolerate spiritual abuse by their presence here and the support they give to others who have been victims. Many have written fine essays that have helped alot of people. Some have created public awareness of issues through the media.

  Finally there are those who have the circumstance and courage to battle these things through the proper legal channels available such as the courts.

  I think many people sometimes feel they are not doing anything important or that they would like to do something more. If you can be happy and positive and enjoy life after you leave then you do alot. You show Witnesses that there is life beyond the WT and that it is good. You can prove that there are good people that are no longer Witnesses. You can offer support to these ones when they go through that difficult transitional period as they leave.

  By not coming off as the stereotypical "apostate" but rather as people with a higher set of ideals that care about others, one can probably fight "evil" things with alot more effectiveness and alot less stress in their life.

  path
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  soylibre

  Francoise, I think you may have that out of context.....I think that refers to evil that one may encounter as a result of their walk with God, for example, Christ didn't resist arrest and execution....but I do believe we are to resist evil......in the general sense....for example, child abuse, cultism, etc.....in this particular case, I say WE MUST RESIST THE WTS, it's our DUTY as survivors....and I believe them to be the anti-Christ.....or something of its equivelant.....
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  zev

  Francoise:
  I think I hear where your coming from. I also want to do more. At present, I cannot, for obvious reasons. Even when the news of the lawsuit was announce by silentlambs, I could not even bring myself to email, fax or otherwise call agencys to help spread the word. I had to have "somebody" else do it for me, for fear my name would be attached to it and thereby give me away.

  Yes I want to do more. Trying to talk to dub's will get me nowhere. They won't listen, as well as I wouldn't listen to such talk years ago when apostates were canvasing the local d.c's trying to spread the word. I was as closed minded then as my wife is now.

  And thats wherein the most fustration lies. I cannot even begin to express an oposing view to her with out her jumping to the apostate band wagon. I've asked her to stop calling me that. Its what they call us, its just a name for something they cant describe properly.

  Anways...like i said..I think I can see where your coming from.

  For now, I have to remain content to stay here, with people of outstanding character and friendship and try my best to study and learn all i can. research and development. Because the day will come when I must get off the fence. And I must be the one who is absolutely positive of what I am doing. No dub will do it for me this time.

  -Zev
  -August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED
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  Francois

  Zev, perhaps reading "Gandhi The Man" by Eknath Eswaran would be helpful to you. In it, credit for lighting Gandhi's path to enlightenment was given to Kasterbai, his wife, for her long-suffering attitude and other of her characteristics not covered in the movie. By the way, watching the movie "Gandhi" with your wife might get her to thinking. It's worth a try.

  Best,
  Francois

  Where it is a duty to worship the Sun you can be sure that a study of the laws of heat is a crime.
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  outnfree

  Interesting question, Francois[e].

  I feel that we ARE to "resist evil".

  Here's why (I am using Biblical references because that's how you began your premise):

  Isaiah 5:20 "Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,
  who put darkness for light and light for darkness,
  who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter."

  In context, Isaiah is saying that Israel was doing such things, and God was angry with His people. In verse 25 Isaiah says the Lord's anger burns against the chosen ones, and therefore (verse 26) "He lifts up a banner for the distant nations ... here they come, swiftly and speedily!" and Jehovah employes these willing participants from the nations to execute his justice on the errant holy nation.

  The context of the scripture that you refer to is as follows:

  "'You have heard that it was said, "Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth." But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, fo with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.'" -- Matthew 5:39-42

  The commentary in the NIV Quest Study Bible for verse 39 asks "Should evil people never be resisted?"

  The answer there is: Jesus is setting forth the way to break the vicious cycle of retaliation. God's people are to work for justice but not take personal revenge. Elsewhere the Bible makes it clear that Christians are to resist the devil (James 4:7) and the forces of evil that are in society (Eph. 6:13).

  For the JW loyalists on this site, this reasoning should appeal:

  Isaiah pointed to what would be the response of the Old Testament God to his modern-day 'holy nation' -- he would use "the nations" to execute his judgment against His people to correct them.

  Using the available court system, media outlets, and personal efforts to publicize the fact that the WTS is "calling evil good and good evil" is EXACTLY what we "apostate nations" should be doing! The reform did not come from within then, and will not come from within today. We are instruments of the Lord!

  In the case of Jesus: Yes, he was saying that one abused in some way by a brother should not go abusing that brother/sister in return. We should rather treat them with kindness and show them the wrongness of their ways by practicing good to a superior degree.

  But that does not mean that we should suffer evil among us. Using the available authorities put in place by Jehovah for our good (Romans 13) to have child molesters, wife beaters, murderers,and other criminals who dare to call themselves "God's people" held accountable in law for their actions is NOT going against Jesus' counsel to 'turn the other cheek.' Publicizing atrocities (and child abuse IS an atrocity) that exist among "God's people" to effect a cleansing is the time-honored job of God's appointed 'prophets' -- a job which can be done most effectively in our modern world by the internet and the established media outlets, broadcast and print both.

  So, the motive for exposing the deceit, lies and dangerous policies of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society need not be revenge. Those of us who pray, can pray for the Society to wake up from its evil ways. We could also pray for the wronged ones to have the courage to speak out against the evil perpetrated by those who would falsely represent themselves as "holy" and to prosecute by whatever means possible. We can support such ones as come forward by peaceful means -- with words of encouragement, flowers, by taking out an ad, picketing at assemblies, authoring essays, posting to this board, publicizing silentlambs, ajwrb, freeminds, watchtowerobserver and similar sites where the deceit and lies are exposed. We need not,
  as the apostle Paul wrote at Romans 12:21 "be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

  There are many of us here who would like to see the WTBTS toppled. That is unlikely to occur. But we could have an impact locally -- just one Witness saved from the deception that the WTS is the only true religion, just one child protected from molestation, just one abuser sent away to abuse no longer, just one Witness parent's eyes opened to the abuse that the inconsistent blood policy really is,
  would amount to an INCREDIBLE benefit for those affected. It would amount to "overcoming evil with good."

  Don't be torn, Francois. Follow your ethics. See a wrong, do something to correct it. But do so with as little MALICE as you can.
  Do so with rejoicing that the one wronged will be so no longer and that you were blessed because you truly loved your neighbor as yourself!

  outnfree
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  Francois

  O'n'F, I'm thinking of Matthew: "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

  Anyway, thanks for all your posts thus far. Doesn't seem like too many of my topics generate much interest. I'll have to be more provocative in future.

  Francois

  Where it is a duty to worship the Sun you can be sure that a study of the laws of heat is a crime.
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  Rex B13

  Hi Francois,
  Yes we are to do out part to stand up against evil! We do this as individuals, churches, civic groups, neighborhood crime watch or serve in the military, political office, charities, missions, policemen, voting our conscience and by exposing cults that manipulate and enslave people to their own ends.
  There is plenty of biblical support for this as well as secular. Go for it!
  Rex
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  Winston

  Francoise,

  How do you pronouce your handle?

  As to the Scripture about resisting evil.

  I think it means a purely personal type of revenge.

  We can easily get caught up in our own thinking and blow things way out of proportions when we get to selfcentered.

  I don't feel that we can take Jesus words and use them to say we shouldn't fight evil in the absolute sense.

  Because look at his own life and what he did, he faught evil, so we have to keep that in mind when we read his words and not try to give it an absolute sense meaning.

  Just like when people say they have unconditional Love they usually don't mean it in the absolute sense( that would be imposible).

  Or when the Bible say abstain from fleshly desires it does mean we should abstain from eating, getting sleep, and having sex with our husband or wife.

  I didn't read all the other post but I read all of yours so please forgive me if I duplicated anybody's answer.

  The Never Ending Search For Truth