And yet there is nothing there that BOLDLY proclaims 1975 is to be the "END" is there?
Mark
My Escape
by Joel Wideman 60 Replies latest jw experiences
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stillajwexelder
btw welcome to the forum
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Joel Wideman
Mark, it is clear that you choose to believe that the people who left were themselves at fault, rather than the Society's well-documented fearmongering. If the Society said that tomorrow the world will end, two days later there'd be people making excuses for why it did not. A year later, they'd be saying that the Society never said that.
I find it interesting that the only issue you chose to challenge was the 1975 one. That was the least of my reasons for leaving, and yet you pounced upon it like a cat on a catnip toy. Did you think you could distract people away from the more difficult to challenge issues of harboring child molesters, lies, and attempted silencing of those who expose those lies? -
HappyDad
I was a JW since 1970 (date of baptism) and studying for two years prior. Strong emphasis was placed on 1975 as being the end. As the time got closer, there were a few articles saying that if it truely wasn't Jehovah's timetable, we should still wait patiently because it still is a short time left. Now that is the epitome of CYA by the borg!
Beep beep......I don't know if your head was under a rock in 1975 but it seems like it is in 2005. How much evidence do you need to believe that the society STRONGLY suggested 1975? Go to Quotes site to see some of what the borg published about it. When it didn't happen, there was not a mass exodus. I .....along with the majority.......believed the society's teachings. They had a way of pulling thier foot out of their mouth everytime. As always, we thought....."where else are we to go?" Thank God for the internet.
HappyDad
P.S. you should obey your mother and stay away from the evil apostate web sites.
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core
Re 1975
The Society did teach that this would be the end...in a Circuit Visit (to all congs worldwide) some few years earleir, COs gave a special talk on the Saturday evening (to which only cong members were asked) - in that outline talk the CO reviewed the "reasons" why it WOULD be 1975 - all related to Adams Creation/Creation of Eve/Conception of first human baby etc etc
At every opportunity a fever pitch atmosaphere was created in which people were actively encouraged to sell all they had and pioneer in the "last few months" -
Why did so many stay after being disappointed - I suppose because with so much invested its difficult to just walk away....and we were led to believe it was only a matter of months out in any calculation so we should just hold on and preach.....
During the 60s and 70s I was an adult servant/elder/PO so was fully aware of what was said and the import placed on it
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luna2
I wasn't a JW in 1975. I didn't start studying until ten years later. I had no clue that 1975 was anything special to witnesses at all. I would never have questioned the sister who studied with me about the date. Oddly enough, it was one of the first things she brought up.
We'd been discussing Armegeddon in the early days of our studying together as it had been her "conversation starter" when I opened the door to her...and she spent quite some time defending and explaining why some erroneously thought the end was coming in '75. I can only think that she was still convincing herself that she and others were personally at fault for believing the predictions made by the WTS or why would she still be so focused on it ten years later? It's also possible that she had run into questions about the date or taunts about the Watchtower's false prophesies from other "worldly" folks and was making an explaination to me so that I'd be ready if my family or friends brought it up. ....which brings up why "worldly" people would even know that the date was so significant if references hadn't been published in the literature as well as it being widely discussed by the JWs going door to door.
From my own experiences as a JW, I also know that the Society has become very careful about what they put in print. They'll often surround the point they are trying to get across with disclaimers so that they can point to the same magazine article to both prove or disprove that they encouraged a certain belief. The real backup for whatever they want people to believe comes via public talks on Sundays, CO's talks and at the Circuit and District Assemblies...most of which are not recorded widely and can therefore be denied or easily refuted later if the FDS changes their minds. Very clever, no? So, I'd imagine that a lot of the 1975 hysteria was built up not just in mags and books, but using talks...and that's not something you can pull out and show people years later.
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Beep,Beep
Sorry. I chose 1975 because it is the easiest to show people you are wrong. Since I was there and read and heard the same thing as those who left did who else can be responsible ?
I really take offense at the harboring of child molester claim as well. Nothing could be further from the truth. More than twenty years ago my nephew was abused by his father. The quickest way to have a second witness to the abuse is a visit to a DOCTOR!! That's all it would take. That's all it did take in my nephew's case. This father was disfellowshipped, went to trial, and eventually pleaded guilty. The sad part is the court decided 9 months to 59 months was all the crime required. He was in for 10! So for all those who did not take the simple step of seeing a doctor, who's at fault here ?
I read of your family life. I'm sorry it was so bad, but answer me this. Who is at fault there ? Who's to blame because your parents were not up to the task of making a marriage work ? Who is to blame that they were such lousy parents ?
I'm tired of all the "cry baby, refuse to accept responsiblity for my own actions" tales that show up on the internet. It reminds of of a song by the Eagles.
""Victim of this/ victim of that/ momma's too thin/ and your daddy's to fat/ Get over it"
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Beep,Beep
P.S. ; you should obey your mother and stay away from the evil apostate web sites
By your p.s. you assume I still am a Witness. You are aware of what happens when you assume aren't you ?
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Joel Wideman
Do the words "logical fallacy" mean anything to you?
People have refuted your statements regarding 1975. If you're going to attack straw men, pick better ones.
Blaming the parents is almost as good as blaming the victim. To really twist the knife, insinuate that the parents had their own nefarious reason for not taking the child to the doctor. Completely ignore the fact that many JWs go the elders first, for fear of being DF'd.
I cannot address your specific example, as I am not privy to the details. I will not stoop to discounting the story. In fact, I'm glad that the abuser was not protected, and was not welcomed back with open arms to abuse again once he had repented. (That is what you're saying, right?) However, I feel it necessary to point out two things. One, a child cannot be considered a credible witness, according to the Society. Two, a doctor can only determine that penetration occured. They can't determine other forms of sexual abuse, and certainly can't identify the abuser. I'm rather amazed that a doctor was invited to testify at a JC. Or was the abuser was already in jail when he was DF'd?
You point at one case and use that as "proof" that molesters aren't harbored. Rather than drag anyone else into this, I'll simply point at numerous supporting cases.
You love attacking straw men, huh? I never said I blamed my parents' divorce on the WTS. My parents got divorced because my father is an alcoholic (now sober 25 years and counting) and my mother is batshit crazy.
How about defending the flip-flopping as shown on the Quotes website? How about defending the WTS instead of attacking me? Could it be that, as you state you aren't a Witness, you aren't here to defend but to attack? Your posting history suggests that. -
Joel Wideman
Oh, one thing, Mark. Thank you. Because of your continued posts to my thread, it has nearly double the viewings it had before it left the first page. Many have been reached, and hopefully helped along whatever path they are on.