by Kent 59 Replies latest jw friends
Yes, Prisca, I can believe that you got good (I mean excellent) reviews. I did too, and that may be related to why we are now EX-JWs. Or, maybe you were that one in a dozen JWs that I was speaking about:-)
Sam Beli
I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted. Eccl 1:14, 15
I think that irregardless of the country in which you live, you must examine your prospective employees very carefully. Background checks are so important. Always attempt to verify their academics by contacting universites or colleges, or ask for transcripts which is common in the US.
Always insist on drug testing and obtain several forms of verifiable identification. If a candidate or new employee raises the topic of religion, then have that employee document their concerns in writing.
What I have found is that many JW's are literally and honestly AFRAID to mention they are JW's until AFTER they are hired. If it was not something to be concerned about, ashamed of, afraid of, or something which will never affect the employer's operating hours, schedule, customer relations, then fine, keep it to yourself.
However, as a manager in the federal government AND a business owner with employees, I can tell you JW's make many mistakes and take alot for granted.
Over ten years ago, I operated a small business in which several JW's were employed. Do you know that when the "Memorial" date arrived, none, I mean NONE had even displayed the courtesy to request that time off? It was a fast food service business which thrived during evening hours.
Just because the owner was a JW it was somehow "understood". That's just one incident. I could relate a million. Will I ever hire a JW again? I don't know. If it was a mature, well adjusted, balanced person (like someone from any other religion or lack thereof), then I probably would-with the understanding that I do not expect religion to interfere (like I am interfering now) with normal operations.
Most JW's strive for humility, will not attempt to manuever for positions, or try to ingratiate themselves for advancement. However, there are always those few (I estimate about 25-40%) of JW's who take advantage.
You know, the ones who always had more food than necessary during the old assembly food service program. The ones who tried to make a living out of the Hall.
Those types are usually the counterparts of trailer-park trash and other loafers/freeloaders in the world.
Sam,
Just so you know I am in management and I do have the authority to hire and fire people, but you are correct in that I have never had to deal with JW's. The way I get around any employee problems is to hire all new people as temps after 3 months you know if you want to keep that person or not. If the employee is a keeper hire them if not cancle their contract and bring in another temp. Simple solution.
Jelly
I own a business and every single JW I hired was soon fired. I found two sleeping with their heads on their desks. I had another decide to tell a supervisor that the supervisor wasn't her "boss" and was flirting openly with other workers. I had another just refuse to work. I had another walk off the job at 5pm to make it to meeting although the job was still going. I could go on and on. I will never hire a JW again. In fact since I am JW free, my business has improved!!! It can become embarrassing when a JW employee starts "witnessing" to a customer and the customer is becoming annoyed!!!
So....Never hire a JW!!!!
RC
Roll, it sounds as though you picked up the same bunch that I fired.
Seriously, until one has gone through the experience it may seem that we are exaggerating, but many JWs just do not have any regard for the needs of a business. They expect their JW supervisor to “understand” that meetings, assemblies and the like take first place, never the job.
Sam Beli
I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted. Eccl 1:14, 15
A question to those of you who have had experiences similar to mine with JW employees. You have noticed that many of the policies in place seem to trouble JW employees, (such as staying till the job is finished, asking for time off in an acceptable manner-even for Memorial night, etc.). At the same time they have surprisingly little trouble with certain other policies, such as taking off on a paid holiday, including their own birthday?
Just wondering. I always found it somewhat hypocritical that JWs were enthusiastic about being off on such “God dishonoring holy days.”
Sam Beli
I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted. Eccl 1:14, 15
Sam,
It was also JWs that caused me to nearly lose my business. Once I eradicated all the JWs the atmosphere in the workplace became much lighter. The other employees began to have a happy attitude and weren't afraid of saying something which may be offensive to the JWs. And now people don't have to look around the corner for a JW hoping they can walk by without being cornered and having a magazine shoved in their face.
As an owner, I am very careful during the interviews making sure I don't hire a JW. If a JW does come in for an interview, I tell them that leaving a job before it is finished means immediate termination, and I do not give days off unless a leave request is filed at least 60 days in advance. Now JWs decline the rest of the interview.
Of course the policy goes for all of my employees.
I was constantly hearing from the other employees how the JW would keep slacking during the day and how they refused to cooperate.
Anyway, It is a lesson I have learned.
If you are in a position of hiring, be sure all of your company policies cover the actions of JWs also. Never think they are honest.
RC
Hi SAm and Roller,
Interesting and educational experiences there!
While I haven't been in a hiring/firing postion,(hospitals use Human resouces for staff) When I have worked at satellite clinics and private Docs,I did mention that if they hired a JW employee,there was a good chance that they would breach medical confidentiality and ethics.
No doc or office manager wants that type of legal entanglement!
I felt it was my professional duty to warn them of this.
Thanks for the experiences,sad but that's how I view them too. Very risky. I know the bunch in my old congo were a lazy lot. Most were on some type of SS or aid. 'So they could pioneer'(their reasoning).
hugs,Tina
I winder why the Watchtower don't emply the Jehovah's Witlesses. Lookm what I found:
Major Employers in Trinity County
This list of major employers was developed using the 2000 America's Labor Market Information System (ALMIS) Employer Database from infoUSA and is sorted in alphabetical order by company name. The industry shown is based upon the Standard Industrial Classification.
On 2. place, guess who!
Jehovah's Witnesses, Weaverville, Religious Organizations
This list was developed using the America's Labor Market Information System (ALMIS) Employer Database from infoUSA. This database of 10 million U.S. businesses is provided in conjunction with the Department of Labor and infoUSA, Omaha, Nebraska, 68127. Resale of this data is prohibited. Copyright 2000 infoUSA, All rights reserved. The Employer Database list is developed by infoUSA using the local phone books and calling the employer directly to obtain the information.
USER NOTE: Users should be aware that in some instances, the company shown may have its headquarters in the county, but the employees are actually located throughout the state. In many areas, government agencies are major employers but may not be shown here. Information provided through this database is not a product of the Covered Employment and Wages Report (ES-202) Program.
Return to Labor Market Information
http://www.calmis.ca.gov/file/MajorER/triniER.htm
I wonder how much the salaries, how much they pay to the society around them in taxes, and so on. Anyone knowing something about this?
Yakki Da
Kent
"The only difference between a fool and the JW legal department is that a fool might be sympathetic ."
Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://watchtower.observer.org
Here are some bloody good reasons for not hireing ANY religious people at all!
CHRISTIAN RIGHTS IN THE WORKPLACE
CHAPTER 2
Employees Of Private, Non-government Organizations
Most employees work for private employers, not for the government. These employees are primarily protected only by Title VII. They may also be protected by laws in their State similar to Title VII. State laws protecting the religious freedom of employees may provide more protection than Title VII, but generally they are very similar to the federal law. This booklet does not attempt to describe individual state laws therefore employees should consult an attorney who is licensed in their particular state to determine if state law provides them with added protection.
This chapter explains how employees of private organizations are protected by Title VII. The rules of law stated also apply to government employees, but focus on private employees because Title VII is usually their only remedy.
Q: Can I Share The Gospel With Co-workers At Work?
A: If required by their religious beliefs, an employee's religiously motivated expressions of faith are protected by Title VII. For instance, in conversations with other employees, you may refer to Biblical passages on slothfulness and "work ethics."[18] Employees can engage in religious speech at work as long as there is no actual imposition on co-workers or disruption of the work routine[19]. Generally, no disruption of the work routine will occur if an employee's witnessing takes place during breaks, or other free time. If other employees are permitted to use electronic mail and screen savers for speech that is not related to work, an employee who has a sincerely held religious belief to communicate their faith with others should also be able to use these modes of communication.
To ensure that their religious speech is protected by Title VII, an employee should first of all be able to honestly say that their religious beliefs require them to share the Gospel whenever possible with willing co-workers during breaks or other free time. The employee must then inform the employer of this religious belief (preferably in writing). At that point, the employer must attempt to accommodate this religious belief unless it will cause the employer undue hardship.
Q: Can I Keep My Bible Or Other Religious Items At My Desk?
A: Yes. As with witnessing to co-workers, an employee can bring his Bible to work and keep it at his desk if he is required to do so by sincerely held religious beliefs. To ensure that this religious belief of having a Bible or other religious items at work is protected by Title VII, an employee should first of all be able to honestly say that their religious beliefs require them to bring these items to work. The employee must then inform the employer of this religious belief (preferably in writing). The employer is then required to attempt to accommodate this belief.
Q: Is My Employer Permitted To Restrict What I Say When I Am Not At Work?
A: Employers generally cannot discriminate against employees because of religious speech expressed outside of the workplace[20]. The only possible exception is if speech activity engaged in outside the workplace directly affects the employee's ability to perform his job properly. For instance, even though not acting in their official capacity, judges have been prohibited from speaking out about issues on which that they may have to rule on[21].
Q: Do I Have To Work On Sundays If My Religion Prohibits It?
A: Employers must accommodate requests by employees for absence on their Sabbath or other religious holidays. An affirmative duty arises under Title VII for the employer to make a good faith effort to arrange the employee's schedule to allow the employee to have Sabbaths off [22]. The employer will be in violation of Title VII if they have "made no real effort" or have taken a "don't care" attitude[23].
For instance, courts have held that an employer is required to accommodate a World Wide Church of God employee who observed his Sabbath from sunset on Friday to sunset on Saturday. The reason for this decision is that the employer did not incur additional costs from the accommodation because they employed extra men at all times to cover unscheduled absences[24].
The employer's affirmative duty to attempt to accommodate the employee's request for time off is not limited if the employee asks for more than one accommodation. For instance, an employee who belongs to the World Wide Church of God requested time off in view of two sincerely held religious beliefs: (1) attending a religious festival during her normal working shift, and (2) refraining from all work during the religious festival. The employer argued that accommodating one of these religious beliefs satisfied their duty under Title VII. But the Court ruled against the employer, refusing to "condone an employer's entire lack of effort to accommodate a given conflict merely because the employer offered to accommodate other ones."[25]
The same rule applies where an employee's religious beliefs prevent him from working on Sundays, and prevent him from asking someone else to engage in this prohibited activity for him. Merely allowing the employee to swap shifts with someone does not constitute reasonable accommodation in this instance. In addition to allowing the employee to be off on Sundays, the employer has an affirmative duty to arrange a swap for the employee.[26] Employees must be careful to specifically inform their employer of this religious belief not to ask anyone else to work on Sunday either.
In sum, employers must attempt to accommodate an employee's need for days off due to religious beliefs. At a minimum, the employer's duty to accommodate includes allowing employees to trade shifts, and may require the employer to arrange for the trade.
Q: Can My Employer Force Me To Work On Jobs That Support Abortion?
A: Title VII requires employers to accommodate employees who refuse to do specific tasks because of a conflict with religious beliefs. For instance, an employer has been required to accommodate a religious worker's objections to abortion[27]. In that case, an Internal Revenue Service employee refused to handle applications for tax exempt status submitted by any organization which supported abortion. The court ruled that accommodating the employee would not result in undue hardship to the employer because the number of applications the employee might refuse to handle would be relatively insignificant as compared to his total workload.
So employees who have a religious objection to abortion can request that their employer not require them to work on projects involving abortion. The employer will be required to grant this request if it can assign these projects to other employees without undue hardship.
Q: Can My Employer Require Me To Speak In A Way That Violates My Religious Convictions?
A: An employee cannot be forced to speak in a manner that would violate his religion. For example, when an employee was fired for refusing, based on religious beliefs, to answer the telephone with "Merry Christmas, Lesco," the court found that the employer should have accommodated the Jehovah's Witness employee's religious convictions regarding the observance of Christmas[28]. The employer should have provided other ways for the employee to answer the phone or assigned her to a different task during the Christmas season.
Q: Do I Have To Pay Union Dues If It Would Violate My Religious Beliefs?
A.: Many employees object to the causes that some unions support, such as Planned Parenthood, or other pro-abortion organizations. Several courts have held that those objecting to the payment of union dues on religious grounds should be accommodated by allowing employees to contribute an amount equal to their dues to an acceptable charity[29]. Another possible accommodation is discounting the union dues in proportion to the amount of money spent on the objectionable union activity[30].
Q: Can I Go To Work Dressed In The Particular Fashion Required By My Religion?
A: Employers must accommodate religious beliefs requiring an employee to dress or groom in a certain manner, unless the rule prohibiting certain religious dressing is justified by a business necessity. The EEOC has ruled that a nurse whose Old Catholic faith required her to wear a scarf was unlawfully discharged for refusing to come to work without the scarf, because requiring the nurse to wear a cap instead of the scarf was "not so necessary to the operation of [the employer's] business as to justify the effect that this policy has upon the religious convictions."[31]Title VII has also been found to protect an employee's religious belief that she must wear a Pro-Life button at all times, even at work[32].
An employer, however, does not discriminate against an employee by requiring him to shave his long facial hair and refrain from wearing a turban, if both of these religious practices result in safety hazards by preventing a hard hat and respirator from being worn properly[33].
Q: Are There Any Types Of Religious Beliefs Or Behavior Not Protected By Title VII?
A: Generally, all sincerely held religious beliefs are protected by Title VII. When a Title VII religious claim fails, it is often because the employer is able to show the employee was discriminated against for inefficiency, bad work product, or an inability to get along with co-workers rather than because of the asserted religious practice. A frequent example is when an employee's religious speech is couched in an argumentative, confrontational style that inhibits cooperation with other employees[34]. In such cases, the court is likely to determine that the employee was not discriminated against because of his religious beliefs, but because of his offensive conduct in the office[35].
Q: Do I Have To Attend Training If It Violates My Religious Convictions?
A: An employee cannot be required to attend training that will violate their sincerely held religious beliefs. The EEOC has ruled that an employer violates Title VII if it requires an employee to attend training containing a philosophy that conflicts with the employee's religious beliefs[36]. The EEOC found that the employer failed to show how accommodating the religious convictions of these employees by not requiring them to attend the training would result in an undue hardship.
Q: When Can My Employer Refuse To Accommodate My Religious Beliefs Because It Will Cause An Undue Hardship?
A: There are very few times when employers can require employees to violate their religious beliefs, or refuse to allow the employee to practice his religious beliefs at work only if it would cause the employer an undue hardship. In order to successfully assert this defense, courts require that the employer demonstrate attempted accommodation before claiming undue hardship[37].
Employers must also be able to show evidence of undue hardship that is more than mere speculation[38]. For example, undue hardship requires more than proof that other employees would grumble or be unhappy about a particular accommodation[39].
[A]n employer does not sustain his burden of proof merely by showing that an accommodation would be bothersome to administer or disruptive of the operative routine. In addition, we are somewhat skeptical of hypothetical hardships that an employer thinks might be caused by an accommodation that never has been put into practice. The employer is on stronger ground when he has attempted various methods of accommodation and can point to hardships that actually resulted[40].
An employer is not required, however, to accommodate a particular religious belief if it would require more than a de minimis cost. For instance, an employer does not have to accommodate a religious belief to be off on Sundays if it would cause the employer to adjust the seniority policy and pay overtime to a replacement[41]. Employers may also consider public safety when establishing undue hardship. For instance, substituting an untrained employee for a highly trained lineman to work on high-voltage power lines would have resulted in undue hardship[42].
It should be emphasized that the Establishment Clause has absolutely no bearing on private employers. At the ACLJ, we often hear private employers attempt to justify their discriminatory treatment of religious employees by quoting the phrase "separation of church and state." Even if this phrase were the law, and it is not, it would not require private employees to have religion-free work environments. Private people or companies are not the government and therefore can never violate the Establishment Clause[43].
Q: How Do I File A Claim Under Title VII If My Religious Rights Have Been Violated?
A: It is recommended that the employee contact an attorney before beginning this process. Because the process must be completed correctly in order to preserve your claim and because it may vary from state to state, it is important to obtain competent legal counsel before beginning.
Title VII first requires that the charge be filed with a state agency if the violation occurs within a state that has set up an agency for handling discrimination claims. If your state does not have its own human rights commission or similar agency, you should file directly with the EEOC. Practically speaking, this means contacting the state agency or EEOC in your state by telephone and informing them that you wish to file a complaint. They will then instruct you on how and where to fill out the necessary paper work. In states that have an agency for handling these claims, filing with the state agency must be followed by timely filing the charge with the EEOC. Some state agencies will do this for you.
Usually the complaint must be filed within 180 days of the discriminatory act. The time period is measured from the date that the discriminatory act occurred. Upon the filing of the charge there is a 180 day mandatory waiting period, during which time the EEOC is given the opportunity to mediate and resolve the complaint. The private litigant then has 90 days in which to file suit. This limitation period runs not from the discriminatory act, but from the date the private party receives notice from the EEOC or state agency that conciliation was completed, or the date the party receives a right to sue letter. For a more detailed description of this process, see Appendix I.
http://www.aclj.org/publications/work/wplace2.asp
As an employer, you have more or less no rights at all if you're stupid enough to hire anyone - especcially Jehowah's Witlesses
Yakki Da
Kent
"The only difference between a fool and the JW legal department is that a fool might be sympathetic ."
Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://watchtower.observer.org
