I have alot of questions

by MrsBee 39 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  MrsBee

  Mrs. Bee, I've seen you around, so I was pretty sure you were up on my history. I am a non-JW Christian Sunday School Teacher married to a JW. He's a sweet, sincere, bumbling man who got sucked in all the way before I got smart about the society. Now, when he is starting to have doubts, they tell him he's "invested too much" to walk away. They have him coming and going.

  That's why I'd love to see you nip this one in the bud. Carefully. It'll save you years of anguish.

  Thanks Jgnat.. I try and throw little subliminals at him to see where his mind is at..I.e. I mentioned today that If something were to go awry with the delivery of our son (Lord Forbid) that Being as though I am not against any medical procedure, they should do whatever they can to save my life. He said he is not against any medical procedures either.. So I mean he gives me hope, but I know that may change if he gets back into going to the KH.. If I hadnt known so many people messed up by this reliigion I might have been more open minded.. Well, Probably not, Im waaaaaay to suspicious of people trying to be too nice or think they are right about everything... LOLOL

  I told him I will always worry that he will become a bible quoting , egotistical maniac, and I will always fear that until he proves me wrong. I havent gotten around to repeating that I WILL NOT ALLOW MY SON TO BE RAISED IN THAT RELIGION.. I believe that children need to be taught at their level and shutting down their imagination is child abuse ..When my husband told me that he wouldnt buy his son (from a previous relationship) Harry Potter because something wizardry and it took everything inside of me not to bust out laughing at that. I mean do these people have fun doing anything ?? JEEZ.. There is slight hope for him, i will try to do things slowly..
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  MrsBee

  MrsBee....I didn't read all the posts so bare with me...'Crisis of Conscience' is a great book and so is Ray's other book 'In Search of Christian Freedom'!

  I ONLY felt guilty UNTILL I found out it was all a 'LIE'! Does your husband know about the UN scandal and that the year 1914 is a lie?

  If he knew the truth about the 'truth' it would help him!

  I think that if I start pullin stuff like that out of nowhere he will think that satan has control of my mind and that will push him close..I am giving him information under the guise that I am researching the history of religion..Which I am..He is a VERY intelligent man, he can talk about anything especially how bad other religions are, and I think we agree on alot of things..But I am starting to throw little comments at him. We will see how this works out in the next couple of weeks..AFTER I give birth... Which is soon I hope
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  MrsBee

  Gah, if he hasn't gone back yet, now's the time! Encourage him to join a club of some kind. Rent movies like Matrix and Stepford Wives. Bring home 1984 from the library. He KNOWS about the hypocricy, he just doesn't realize it's more than skin deep.

  We watch movies like that, we own all the Matrix movies.. The only movies he wont watch are horror flicks, with Emily Rose etc.. I dont really blame him on those though..LOOLOLOL
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  Check_Your_Premises

  MrsBee,

  I had a few more thoughts on the ubm checklist. We get one of you every few weeks. Often I leave the intros and to do lists to my able colleagues. As I learn more, my own new ubm checklist changes.

  Something I learned or came upon recently is from a former dub; "you leave the watchtower through the same door you entered."

  That means you aren't going to be able to show him something that didn't have any bearing on his decision to be a dub, and expect it to have any effect. Or to put it simply, don't try to force him out another door.

  Secondly, many of the vast facts and reasoning that can be brought to bear will have no real significance to you. So that means you are not going to be able to present it or argue it effectively. If you wouldn't buy it, you are going to have a hard time selling it!

  So what I am trying to get at, is you have been given a huge amount of info in a short amount of time. It can be very overwhelming. I am not saying that you shouldn't try to get a handle on it all. You may have to! What I am saying is you need to go for the things that will get you the most bang for your buck.

  Especially in your case, because I fear you don't have alot of time. He will make all sorts of promises to you right now of tolerance, and even openmindeness on blood transfusions for example. The second they get their hooks back in him, expect all of that to disappear in an instant! Ask MJ.

  So your research should focus on:

  1. What door did he come through

  2. What issues do you care about regarding the dubs

  3. What combinations can you find between 1 and 2. THIS IS YOUR AREA OF NECESSARY EXPERTISE. Put all other research at a lower priority. Know what subjects are out there, so when targets of opportunity arise you can capitlize on them. But be an expert in the areas where 1 and 2 combine.

  I noticed you didn't comment on the questions I recommended. Do you think they won't work in your case? Don't worry, you won't hurt my feelings. The difficult part for a ubm critiquer is that there is just so darn much we don't know about your relationship or where things are from a perspective of timing.

  Take a look at those questions again, let us know what you think about them. Maybe those exact questions won't work right now, but there are ideas behind them. What questions might be more effective, yet convey the same ideas?

  I am very fascinated and hopeful of the idea that we might be able to talk you through this. You are at a point that many of us were at. In hindsight, I think most of us ubm's are sure we could have avoided all of this if we "only knew then what we know now". If we only could have asked the right questions when our spouses were still in control of important portions of their mind. I think this is a universal ubm lament.

  I can't stress enough that I think you are in a critical time. Let's make the most of it!!!

  CYP
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  Legolas

  MrsBee....I hope it all goes well for you with your husband and in giving birth!

  Keep us posted!
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  MrsBee

  Thanks CYP for all of your assistance, and I copied that letter JIC I might need it one day

  I give him the benefit of the doubt, because he mentions the KH, I get thrown off edge because throughout my life I have run into all kinds of JW's and even alot of formers are a little loco, and I have seen what growing up on a JW household can do.. He just gets on this moral high horse sometimes that makes me nervous . I mentioned before that I love my husband with everything inside of me , I am willing to allow him the time to better his relationship with GOD, because that is his job, there is nothing I can do for his salvation and nothing he can do for mine.. BUT as soon as I feel seperation in my household, I will address it and he will have to deal with it. I have a couple of people I have talked to about the situation in the past and they all know our relationship, and they dont think that he will let anything come in between us, because I mean he really loves me and I know it. Thats one thing I keep close to me..But I am NOT the type to stick around and be beat up (mentally, spiritually or emotionally) .

  The only time he got mad at me in regards to that crap is when he said the only way GOD approves divorce is in the case of adultery and I said what if a woman is getting beat up, and he got angry.. I told him he will be alright and we changed the subject....

  Let me see if I can answer some of your questions CYP

  1. What door did he come through

  His Former GF who was Dfed as a teenager, he wanted to marry her she wanted to get reinstated first, then wanted him to get baptised then wanted him to be a Ministers Servant , then a Pioneer.. She was playin him..anyways, he also never really had any friends, no male role models growing up, and didnt have a job, or car, was doing pretty bad for himself, so you know he was a prime canidate at the time.

  2. What issues do you care about regarding the dubs

  Blood Transfusions, Holidays, Time away from family (especially since I cant understand how he could listen to them talk about everyone not a JW being killed at armegeddon and not think of me differently) They are just looney to me.. they make me laugh, I make fun of them (not in front of him though...) .. He always says that they made him a better person, and I can believe that, but Im an independent thinking, free soul, I do what I want and Im not about to follow a bunch of people..THEY ARE PEOPLE, they are no better than me!!! I shouldnt have to prove to any PERSON whether or not Im worthy and that JMPO on it...

  I noticed you didn't comment on the questions I recommended. Do you think they won't work in your case? Don't worry, you won't hurt my feelings. The difficult part for a ubm critiquer is that there is just so darn much we don't know about your relationship or where things are from a perspective of timing.

  Im still researching alot of stuff, plus I mean he hasnt even gone to ONE meeting since we have been married, Im just loading my guns because he will go back eventually and before he starts gettting all Zombie and everything I want to just be prepared so I can TRY and nip it in the BUD, beause honestly if I knew he would go back to be a witness, I wouldnt have married him, even as much as I love him..
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  AK - Jeff

  Welcome Mrs Bee!

  You will get plenty of answers to the questions you posed, so I refrain at the moment.

  Here is wishing all works out well for you and hubby in the end.

  Jeff
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  Check_Your_Premises

  Im still researching alot of stuff, plus I mean he hasnt even gone to ONE meeting since we have been married, Im just loading my guns because he will go back eventually and before he starts gettting all Zombie and everything I want to just be prepared so I can TRY and nip it in the BUD, beause honestly if I knew he would go back to be a witness, I wouldnt have married him, even as much as I love him..

  I know you are overwhelmed with info right now, that is why I gave you a small area to focus on. I don't think you want to load your guns now. I think you want to do everything in your power to keep him from going back to the KH. I fear the second he sets foot in that place you will lose all of the reasonableness and closeness you have. Don't underestimate the power of mind control. That was my mistake.

  I figured I would look for some stuff, and if my wife decided to get baptized I would be able to REASON with her to talk her out of it. I figured she trusted me, and would respect my concern. The hair on the back of my neck stood up when I asked her "if the jw told you to do something that was against God's will would you do it?" and I saw her reaction. Now that question is simple enough to understand. My wife looked at me like I said "2+2=jello". That was when I realized I was in way over my head.

  Do whatever you can to keep him out of the KH and away from other JWs (without criticizing the JW of course). I can't stress that enough. 90% of their mind control takes place inside. The second he goes back he will change almost instantly before your eyes. If you can keep him out your job will be so much easier. Once he goes back it will become SOOOOO much harder. Keep him very busy. Use every tool and excuse at your disposal. Don't give him the chance.

  Have you ordered Hassan's books yet?

  CYP
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  Check_Your_Premises

  Regarding those questions I gave you to ask, the beauty of them is you don't need to research anything. Just fire them off. See what he says. Come tell us what he says, and we will give you some new ones. The only research you are doing is on him.

  He didn't join because of some jw fact that you are going to research and present to him. He joined because of some fact about him. It is not likely that you will be able to show him some fact that refutes a jw claim and have him accept it. It is likely he WANTS to believe in the jw. The facts don't matter. The facts only matter if he DOES NOT WANT to believe in the jw. (If you noticed, one of those questions I gave you paves the way for you to bring up facts.)
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  Check_Your_Premises

  I thought about this some more. Your husband left because of jwbb (jw behaving badly). This is probably the most common reason other than moral failings.

  One of the things that makes leaving so hard though is the PHOBIAS. This is a huge aspect of mind control. I think having a child has made his jw implanted phobias seem more relevant than before. I would add one more question for you to ask him.

  "If you never went back to the jw, what do you think would happen?"

  He will likely say, "I won't survive armageddon or live forever in paradise"

  "I thought we were saved by believing in Christs sacrifice, so that wasn't enough? I have to join the right group?"

  I hope I am not being to pushy with you. I know I probably sound that way, or like a know it all or even a bitter over the top lunatic? I am just so heartbroken every time a new ubm shows up. Especially women ubms. I am just so desperate for you to avoid this fate. It really is a pathetic existence. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. Ask kls. Ask Will Power. I just see you as having a small window of opportunity that will make the difference between a few months of needless grief versus years or even decades.

  I am so sorry about all of this. I am so sorry you are going through it during a pregnancy. I know you have enough emotional and physical stress as it is. But you need to get some mamma grizzly bear in you right now and fight this thing hard, yet at the same time have the strength to come off as a sweety your husband would never want to let down.

  Prayers.

  CYP