UK "shoot to kill" - mixed up justice

by Simon 58 Replies latest social current

• 

  Satans little helper

  the guy DID run, not only did he run but he ran onto the underground. That's the underground, the same underground that some group of shit heads blew up a few days before.

  He ran because his visa was invalid, rather than following the clear instructions of the police officer to lay down with his hands behind his head; do I think he was foolish? damn right, do I think he deserved what happened? of course not, his life is of as much value as any other regardless of his actions.

  I think the police reaction was way over the top but clearly understandable given the circumstances. The police were watching the house where he was staying, not knowing that it was subdivided, thinking that he was linked to the bombers in the same building. Had he not ran onto the underground and given the impression of being a threat to the public then he wouldn't have been shot in the head

  It is very easy to second guess the security agencies but they are working with very limited information against a well organised and financed group of people. The fact that the second group managed to get into position and were only foiled by duff explosives shows the pressure that the police were under to do SOMETHING to avoid a further attack and reassure the public.

  The arrests of the guys who carried out the failed attacks without s single shot being fired shows that lessons were learnt from the Menezes mistake
• 

  Robdar

  I think the police reaction was way over the top but clearly understandable given the circumstances. The police were watching the house where he was staying, not knowing that it was subdivided, thinking that he was linked to the bombers in the same building. Had he not ran onto the underground and given the impression of being a threat to the public then he wouldn't have been shot in the head

  I disagree. It is not understandable. They had him restrained then they decided to shoot him in the head. Once he was restrained, there was no need for further violence. Period.
• 

  Sam the Man

  " Once he was restrained, there was no need for further violence. Period. "

  Not that you were there... what if he had an explosive device on him? What if your husband was the one trying to restrain him? Would you be so eager for the police to take a risk and hope that he didn't plan to blow himself up then?!?
• 

  Ellie

  The problem with people is that they expect the police to be superhuman, for every decision they make to be the correct one, what if Menezes had been a terrorist and they had chose not to shoot, then he had blown himself and a train full of people up, you'd all be condemning the police for not taking action, they can't win.
• 

  LittleToe

  Sam:Nothing to apologise for, and certainly no offense given (hopefully none taken, either).

  SLH:We've discussed this one over the whole period of the continued "new light" style evidence. Sure he ran to catch his train, but prior to that he was mosying along taking the time to even pick up a paper on the train-side of the turnstyles.

  According to the latest data he wasn't doing an athletic evasion at all, but was blissfully unaware until he was grabbed in the carriage!!!

  Other passengers were shocked and report no commands being shouted from plainsclothed police.
• 

  Sam the Man

  No offense taken matey.
• 

  Robdar

  Not that you were there... what if he had an explosive device on him? What if your husband was the one trying to restrain him? Would you be so eager for the police to take a risk and hope that he didn't plan to blow himself up then?!?

  Oh, and you were there? You saw it first hand? Tell me, did he have an explosive device on him? No he didn't. And, if he had had explosive devices on him, how do you know that gunfire wouldn't have set them off?

  I do not have a husband and so do not worry about such things. Once they had him restrained, there was no need for further violence. Period.
• 

  Sam the Man

  How could you be sure that he didnt have an explosive device on him? The police had to deal with him. Did he run into the underground after being told by police not to? YES! Would gunfire have set the explosives off? Probably, but the police did not use gunfire here, a taser gun was used. Although none of us were there, most of us have at least a slight clue as to what happened. I would love to see your answer to terrorists.

  "STOP!"

  "No way!"

  "Please stop"

  "No way!"

  "Ok"
• 

  ISP

  It was interesting how the 'expired visa' story was released to the press.It took away peoples sympathy and furthered another possible theory...that he was running from the police for that reason. Thats how to release info! When it happens to them i.e. like this woman did...they don't like it.

  ISP
• 

  Caedes

  The police and security services have always had a shoot to kill policy, if someone is dangerous enough that the police have to open fire then the aim is always to kill, there is no such thing as shooting to wound, thats just luck if you survive.

  Robdar, I thought you didn't feel that foreigners should have a critical opinion on domestic politics in America? Or is it differant when it comes to you criticising UK politics? After all your country had a terrorist attack and invaded two countries, we have a terrorist attack and shoot one innocent man. Obviously I have no problem with you criticising the UK but don't complain when people have something to say on your country's own imperialistic warmongering in return. In answer to your question, no a bullet is not likely to set off any explosive but of course that doesn't explain why the officer decided to shoot him eight times rather than the normal two or three, I rather suspect (and hope) that the officer had his weapon set to full auto by mistake.

  Should it turn out that the security services had faulty intelligence that gave them reason to suspect Mr menezes was a terrorist then they were probably right to shoot him, better that than another underground bomb going off. At the moment it looks like that wasn't the case and that the police just bungled it.