"We aren't prideful, we are just giving credit to God's organization"

by Check_Your_Premises 21 Replies latest jw friends

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  Check_Your_Premises

  I reply, "Well if that were true, then why do you have to run down all the other Christians?"

  Jw response: "Nobody is attacking them personally. It is the teachings. Satan is using them to decieve."

  I reply, "I have a hard time believing that Satan is using churches that preach salvation through faith in Christ?"

  This is a typical exchange many have had I am sure. How did you respond? What is the best way to respond?

  I, personally, see no need to spend alot of time pointing out what everyone else is doing wrong. I don't think any aspect of Christianity requires it. I think we are all supposed to keep working on that beam in our own eye before we go looking for specks in other's.

  And in regards to incorrect teachings; all that is needed is to reason on them. No need to label or say they are from Satan. Let the facts stand alone.

  And in regards to admonishing others; I think all that is needed is to point out what the scriptures say. Nothing else. In that way you are not the one doing the admonishing, nor should you.

  Additionally, to decide that all non-members of your group are from Satan sounds awfully judgemental. We aren't supposed to do that.

  Of course, many will see the desire to not judge as having no standards. Not true! The standards a person holds themselves to has nothing to do with what standards they chose to criticize in others. And the fact that you might hold yourself to higher standards in no way makes you superior. We all have fallen short.

  Lastly, to call yourself God's organization, and to label other Christians as being from Satan sure does lack humility!

  THoughts?
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  Check_Your_Premises

  An, "ok, am I really the only one who had this conversation" bump
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  OldSoul

  [in the voice of Jon Stewart of The Daily Show] Um [ahem!] I, uh...I agree?
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  jgnat

  Lately, when my hubby comes home crowing about the deficiencies in Christendom's churches, I ask him if the speaker invited a member of such churches to come and speak in their defence? How can he say he has full information if he won't hear the other side?
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  OldSoul

  Now, jgnat! I am shocked! You have been reading Shining One for all this time and don't yet know that a statement that something is factual is sufficient evidence to prove it so?

  ROFL
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  Check_Your_Premises

  OS,

  You agree that I am the only one who had this conversation, or you agree with the arguments I typed above?

  I am trying to get some good talking points for this conversation, as well as get my own thoughts worked out by simply forcing myself to articulate them.

  Any other thoughts, or is this just to darn boring of a subject?

  I just am not hitting on all my cylinders lately. Anyone who knows me, knows why.

  CYP
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  OldSoul

  I don't think it is boring at all. I just think you nailed it first post through the gate. You covered everything I would have mentioned given what you posted. I didn't have anything to add.

  Since you added you are trying to get down the "talking points," I would suggest that if you are plannig to hit a JW with this you invert your argument. Start with the things they agree with completely. You could lead off with Scripturally establishing this: The standards a person holds themselves to has nothing to do with what standards they chose to criticize in others. And the fact that you might hold yourself to higher standards in no way makes you superior. We all have fallen short.

  They will readily agree, having no clue that they have just judged their own leaders as Pharisees. Just find the common ground first, then work from there.

  Respectfully,
  OldSoul
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  Big Dog

  CYP, I have had that very conversation with various members of my dub family and I think you articulated the responses very well. I once read an essay by a gentleman named Tim Campbell entitled "What is True Religion" that more or less addressed this topic and gave me some food for thought. I think I found it on one of the ex-JW websites, I can e-mail it to you if you would like.
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  Check_Your_Premises

  BD,

  Sure.

  CYP
• 

  carla

  CYP, what?! Did you put a listenting device in my home?! I'm shocked. You keep bringing up our conversations, shame on you! Think your in Canada or something?

  I see far too often that we all have the same repetetive conversations. Then you can also bring the point (theirs in publication) that it is not a sin or persecution to point out false teaching. This however does not apply to the wt, ever. Then it is simply trashing jw's cause nobody likes them. Instead of trying to have an actual discussion about the differences using actual literature from either (Christendom or wt) or the Bible only, in my experience that is the point in which they want to give up. You only want to argue anyway. They seem unable to have an actual discussion, they only want to 'teach' you. No room for questions. They never seem to apply the same standards they want of others to themselves or the gb.